Cover Page Title of submission: Self-Awareness as a Resource for Design: Overcoming I-methodology in the design of household cleaning products Category of submission: Design Case Study Susan P. Wyche, Georgia Institute of Technology, Graphics, Visualization, and Usability Center, TSRB 85th 5th Street NW., Atlanta, GA 303332, USA, fax:+1 404.894.0673 , phone: +1 404.558.9821, spwyche@cc.gatech.edu 1 Self-Awareness as a Resource for Design: Overcoming I-methodology in the design of household cleaning products Susan P. Wyche Georgia Institute of Technology College of Computing Graphics, Visualization, and Usability Center TSRB 85th 5th Street NW Atlanta, GA 30332 spwyche@cc.gatech.edu Permission to make digital or hard copies of all or part of this work for personal or classroom use is granted without fee provided that copies are not made or distributed for profit or commercial advantage and that copies bear this notice and the full citation on the first page. To copy otherwise, or republish, to post on servers or to redistribute to lists, requires prior specific permission and/or a fee. Copyright © 2005 AIGA | The professional association for design. Abstract -maybe don’t say anything about time, compared to the amount of time anthopologist spend Too often designers are unaware of how their ways of doing things differ from users. “I-methodology” or when we design for ourselves rather than today’s diverse population is an obstacle to user-centered design. In this paper I outline a process that is grounded in increasing designers’ self-awareness and in turn . . .more empathetic towards users unlike themselves. a user population that differs from them. To do this I suggest . . .and suggest that when designers becomes aware of their cultural self this provides an additional resource upon which to draw and influence design. By recognizing how your ways of doing things differ from users, the historical themes embedded in technology and by immersing yourself into users dayto-day experience, i-methodology’s impact can be limited and new spaces for design will open. 2 Designing household cleaning products for older adults (65+ years old) is used as a lens to illustrate the process and a collection of speculative designs that contradict typical ideas embodies in housewares products are presented. Keywords Concept Design, Elders, Ethnography, Home, Interdisciplinary Design, User-Centered Design / Human-Centered Design Project/problem statement I am a 28-year old, female, able-bodied, industrial designer working towards a PhD. in Human-Centered Computing. I prefer to avoid housework as much as possible, but when I do clean, I use the brands, products, and techniques my mother used. A wide-range of users’ experiences would be neglected if I designed house cleaning products based on myself. Design carries with it a responsibility to develop technologies that enhance people’s everyday lives. If we are to configure a notion of user that is broader than the design profession, increased self-awareness must be a standard part of the design process. I-methodology, or designers seeing themselves as representative of users, is a barrier to user-centered design. Sociologist, Madeleine Akrich (cite) coined the term and describes it as the “reliance on personal experience, whereby the designer replaces his professional hat by that of the layman.” The designer is often unaware that he or she is using him-or herself as a model for all users. To break out of this trap we must become more conscious of the metaphors that influence our work, the historical themes embedded in technology’s development, and continue to observe users day-to-day lives. The project’s goal was to understand aging’s impact on housework. The project was motivated by: 1) older adults desire to “age in place” instead of a nursing home or assisted living facility. If this is to happen elders must be able to perform mundane household tasks. 2) Despite increased attention towards design for the home, research examining housework remains scarce. The project resulted in a user-centered design process grounded increased my self-awareness and a collection of innovative household cleaning products. My approach is compatible in spirit and philosophy with Batya Friedman’s value-centered design (cite), and Phoebe Senger’s s critical technical practice (cite) in that both call for increased reflection among designers on their practices. My process differs because its results in new product concepts rather than computational programs and devices. Background I was the project’s primary researcher and designer. Throughout the study, I was advised by faculty from Cornell University’s Design and Environmental Analysis, Science and Technology Studies, Information Science and Anthropology departments. The thesis project was done as a requirement for an MS degree in Human-Environment Relations, in Cornell’s 3 Design and Environmental Analysis Department. S.C. Johnson and Co. funded the study through a grant. Fieldwork began in February 2003 and ended four months later. Data analysis and concept generation occurred during summer 2003 in collaboration with S.C. Johnson’s Consumer and Products Insights Department in Racine, Wisconsin, USA. Challenge Recognizing one’s self, or the biases, assumptions, and stereotypes inherit in who you are, is a fundamental step anthropologists take before entering the field. They understand that in order to theorize about other peoples’ behavior, they must be conscious of their own. Despite the increased use of anthropological research methods (i.e. ethnography) in the design process, critical reflection on how designers consciously or unconsciously map their values onto their work is missing. However, increased attention towards aging and design suggests that there is growing recognition of Imethodology’s impact on product development process. Designers are typically between the ages of 22 and 45years old (cite IDSA) making it difficult for them to fully empathize with the physical, cognitive and experiential changes that accompany growing older. We have designed products that are biased towards the age group represented by designers, thus neglecting an increasingly older population. Additionally, female designers have drawn attention to I-methodology’s effect. They argue that women’s under representation in the field, results in products that do not routinely mesh with what they find appropriate, comfortable, and appealing. (cite Perkins) A possible obstacle to increased self-awareness in the design process is the limited time designers have to bring a product to market. In contrast to academic ethnography, where anthropologists devote years to fieldwork, in a business context ethnographically inspired research must take place in a constrained time period. Empathy tools, such as clouded glasses and weighted gloves have provided designers with a way to quickly gain insight into the physical changes that come with encroaching age (cite IDEO). However, elders relates to products in ways that transcend their usability (cite Forlizzi). Thus, to design effective experiences we must continue to design for cognitive and physical, but also tap into the experiential changes to inform design. To become more sensitive to users’ experience designers must become more aware of their own. The concept of “self-awareness” has received considerable attention from psychoanalysists, philosophers, and learning science researchers. Though its definition is complex and open to debate, I define it as increasing designers’ ability to perceive their assumptions, behaviors, and to better understand the metaphors that shape their work. Similar to how anthropologists reflect on who they are before entering and while in the field I propose the same for designers and outline an approach appropriate for the time demands found in business contexts. Solution Process 4 This process was guided by becoming conscious of how I cleaned my home, the historical themes embedded in domestic technology’s development, and of aging’s effects on everyday experiences. Ethnographically inspired research techniques such as “design ethnography” (cite) and “cultural probes” (cite) influenced my approach. These methods are wellsuited for understanding the broad patterns of everyday life that are important and relevant for the conception of new products. These techniques acknowledge the need for flexibility, reflection and subjectivity’s role in design, things not typically recognized in more rigid design processes. I outline a set of data collection techniques that can be used effectively and efficiently to uncover aging’s effects on housework for the purpose of design and to learn more about one’s self. The techniques are tailored for the project’s goal and resulted in a collection of speculative design concepts. The research processes four, overlapping stages are: “Guerilla Research,” Historical Analysis, In-home Observation and context appropriate research tools. often did I mop my floor? Why did I store cleaning supplies underneath the kitchen sink? Do others buy the least expensive products or do they remain loyal to a particular brand? These questions lead me to the housewares aisle at local grocery stores and “big-box” retailers. By posing as a shopper, taking pictures and jotting down notes, I familiarized myself with the various brands, performance standards, manufacturers, and dispensing mechanisms available. I began to “learn the language” associated with cleaning products. Knowing that personal preferences represented merely a fraction of what is available. Following a week of “hanging around” in stores I bought unfamiliar products and incorporated them into my cleaning routine. I had never used the new Swiffer Sweeper or the popular “wipe” products, well liked among consumers. Trying these allowed me to appreciate users’ experiences with cleaning supplies that differed from the ones to which I was accustomed. I extended this idea by ordering various foreign cleaning products. Guerilla research is an informal, situated, and opportunistic way to learn as much as possible about a topic in a limited amount of time. Creativity and resourcefulness are essential to this rapid process. During the project’s first month I took advantage of, and created, opportunities to absorb information about and related to housework and aging. My knowledge about housework has been shaped by living in the United States. I wanted to sensitize myself to how this shaped the products I used and familiarize myself with options available abroad. I learned that rather than the floral scents popular in this country lavender scented cleaning solutions were most common in Central and South America. European products were rarely sold in the “super sized” portions I was so accustomed to seeing. The opening mechanisms used on Dutch products were often easier to open than the ones on their US counterparts. I started by reflecting on my cleaning experiences. How In addition to focusing on my personal cleaning habits, “Guerilla Research” 5 I delved into others. Informal interviews with anybody willing and interested to talk about housework and aging were useful. Asking friends and family how often they scrubbed the mildew in their shower, what did they most dislike about cleaning the toilet, and if they were as excited about the Swiffer floor mop as everyone else,1 elicited enlightening anecdotes that informed my perspective and helped me continue to sensitize myself to the variety of housework experiences. It was important to bridge the generational gap that existed between me and older adults. Spending time in local restaurants frequented by elders, visiting aging relatives, and conducting expert interviews with gerontologists in Cornell’s Human Development Department provided additional insight into how older adults’ day-to-day lives differed from mine. People in there 70’s and 80’s typically ate dinner much earlier in the evening than I did, they discussed how their attitudes towards cleaning changed as their children grew up and left the house, and that housework was something they like to do once a week unlike me who performed it whenever I had a spare moment. “Shadowing” my 91-year old grandfather as he walked through Wal-Mart made me aware of how is shopping experience differed from mine. I asked him if I could tag along while he went shopping for cleaning products. Unlike my grandfather, I rarely felt frustrated or tired by the retailers’ enormous space and the myriad of product. However, my grandfather found the options bewildering, as evidenced by him asking, “You go to buy these products today your Windex, your bleach, 1 your detergent, anything, they’ve got this added, they’ve got that added, they have perfume added, which one do I want?” If something was not directly related to housework I made it. Wanting to broaden my design horizon I found connections between my topic and seemingly unrelated events to create space for new ideas. While visiting a friend in Tennessee I took a trip to Elvis’ Graceland, in Memphis, and informally interviewed the museum staff about housework. Imagining how the shag carpet in the Jungle Room was vacuumed or thinking about how difficult it would be dust all those framed gold records and wondering did Elvis ever do the dishes, encouraged wild ideas that were separated from my perceptions of housework. Guerilla research requires designers to take in the world through the lens of their subject. It is a fast and affective way to increase awareness about assumptions they bring to their work and to broaden their understanding of users. Though not everything I did during this stage translated into a new product, the experience subtlety shaped the process and results. Historical Analysis I begun to understand housework today but was curious to know what is was like before I lived. The cultural and historical themes that shaped elder’s lifetime effect how designers conceive of products. Incorporating Historical awareness into the design process enables us to consciously choose which themes bear repeating, and which we should resist in our designs (cite Sengers). Type “I love my Swiffer” into Google to understand. 6 I took advantage of Cornell Libraries’ vast home economics archives2 and delved into housework’s rich history. I browsed hundreds of Ladies’ Home Journal and Good Housekeeping magazines, and read prominent texts in the field including Ruth Schwartz Cowan’s More Work for Mother and Never Done: A History of American Housework by Susan Strasser. Three themes emerged as important to understanding the last 100 years of housework’s history in the US 1) housework as “women’s work” 2) the “labor saving” debate and 3) loss of sensual emotional qualities. The drawbacks of assuming that housework is “women’s work” are well documented. Despite household upkeep becoming an increasingly shared activity cleaning products are overwhelmingly targeted towards women and during their design the user is almost always configured as female. Arguably, perpetuates the stereotypical notion that a woman’s place is in the home. Moreover as women continue to enter the paid work force they often should the “double burden” of balancing a career with maintaining a home. . . . .make it necsessaru to configure a user not embedded in the apst but intone with social changes. Another assumption related to housework is that new products and technology’s make housework more efficient, but research suggests that this is not the case (cite Vanek). While, new technologies are often proposed as labor saving their actual impact is quite different. For example, vacuums, automatic washing machines, and dishwashers, created higher standards which woman had to work harder to achieve thus costing rather than saving time. For example, Indeed, in the domestic economy of labor saving devices, work saved on one task was often diverted to another. http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:DIzD2KIDzUk J:xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/r_uth.html+labor+savin g+women+laundry+standards&hl=en Finally, as technology increasingly makes its way into our domestic lives some, of the emotional and sensual qualities that made up our everyday experiences were lost. During the past century, housework became an isolating event. Families no longer devote an entire day to cleaning their homes. Instead, it has typically become one person’s responsibility and is performed when there is a spare minute or in preparation for guests visiting. Before washers and dryers existed, laundering took place outdoors where women would interact with neighbors, converse, and exchange gossip. Today, clothes washing is confined to a laundry room or basement. Indeed, technology removed much of the drudgery associated with housework, but if efficiency remains the driving force behind its conception we risk losing the qualities that make experiences most human. Design unconsciously replicates historical themes in their work (cite Sengers). Historical awareness, whether it be conducting a literature reviews or flipping through old magazines, increases self-awareness by demonstrating . . . becoming conscious of how the way we think about housework is embedded in the past will In-home observation 2 For more information see: http://hearth.library.cornell.edu/ 7 In context interviews and observation were the appropriate next step. I needed to dig deeper insights into elders’ desires, beliefs, habits, and motivations for cleaning. Anthropologists spend months looking for informant, building rapport, and developing social intimacy while in the field. That was not a luxury during my abbreviated ethnography. To quickly recruit . . .relied on various recruiting techniques (i.e. snowballing . .. ), and chance. Except for the few 70-plus professors in my department my interactions with older adults were few. To find participant I looked took advantage of opportunities immediately available to me. Most people were recrtuited by asing friends and acquaintances if I could interview their parents or grandparents. I also . . .shared connection wheterh it be through attendinf school, member of a sororoity o searched through my undergraduate university’s alumni directory, talke and even used my relatives. looked for In a . . .biased in that they . .ackground, but different feom me. -race, social class, living arrangements, I needd to have a personal connection with each to help overcome the social awkwardness that comes with entering someone’s home and asking them intimate questions about how they clean . . .building better report with participant in relatively little time. -comfortable, build rapport, in limited time . . . The sample was biased because participants’ connections to me reflected who I am in terms of the people to whom I have access. I was able to create a fairly heterogeneous sample of 18 elders ranging in age from 67 to 90. People from various education levels, different parts of the country, different from me. The samples included a chiropractor living in upstate New York, a former housemaid in rural North Carolina, two retired Cornell Home Economics professors, and a WW2 veteran. Participants living situations varied from living with a partner in a home, to living in an assisted living facility, to . . . . All . . .took place in homes, bthe environment I wanted to understand first-hand all the interviews took place in participants’ homes. People are limited in their abilities to describe how they do something without immediate access to the social and material aspects of their lives and their mundane actions become so routine that they inadvertently dismiss details that may interest a design researcher. Visit began with a guided tour of participant’s home. Where do you store cleniang products? How often do you . . . . . -stimulus, motivations behind cleaning, where they stored things . . . .how often they were used. Doing this helped elder’s recall their intention for doing thing. --where do they store products, where do they shop, if they hire someone to clean what don’t they let that person clean. -demonstrate how they washed a window Following the tours conversations usually veered from housework. Rather than redirecting the discussions I chose to listen to participants’ stories. Whether it was proudly telling about a grandchild’s accomplishments, reminiscing about deceased family members, or talking 8 about the upcoming presidential election, I paid attention. Their stories provided a broader understanding of the context in which housework occurs and shaped my knowledge and sensibilities about elders’ experiences. Following th guided tours, I sat down with participants and . . . .comfortable dialogie, tiaored tools to delve into the experitantial qualities, acoompany housework. The memory scrapbook is made up of various cleaningrelated images from the past century. Advertisements from Ladies Home Journal, Good Housekeeping, and Sears and Roebuck catalogues dating from the turn of the century to the present were copied and pasted into a scrapbook. This was an attractive medium for provoking stories because of its informal nature and was synonymous with reminiscing about the past. Memory Scrapbook and Box of Products Investigating a topic in hopes of finding design opportunities often requires developing new data gathering techniques. I created the “Memory Scrapbook” (Figure ?.) to elicit stories about how housework has changed over time and the “Store in a Box” (Figure) to observe elder’s reactions and interactions with today’s cleaning products. Tapping into elder’s lifetime of experiences and knowledge about housework . . .self-awareness To do this overcomd the officilasom . . .Like Gaver’s, see themselves as co-reserchers rather than subject under study . . .. “cultural probes” the methods were developed with the intent to overcome the officialdom that comes with being a researcher working on a wellfunded project. Tools that . . .By tapping into elders vast experience and knowledge . . .acknowledge their role, expertise, co-researchers, rather than a participantRecognizing that the user is the expert I invented tools to lessen the barriers that exist between reseaercher and participants. By tapping into Figure ?. Memory Scrapbook The scrapbook proved to be an effective tool. Participants where delighted when examining the pages. They would sing old jingles, telling stories about products no longer available, and reveal which ones had the staying power continued to use 9 throughout the years. products. –jogging the memory I brought the straightforward “box of products” (see Figure?) to each in-home visit. It was a box filled with unused and unopened cleaning supplies (Figure ?). I observed elders interact with products and saw firsthand how their reduced dexterity makes opening everyday packaging difficult. Unscrewing caps and opening packages, problems I rarely encountered. Some described products as being too heavy but I was struck most by the frustration elders encounter when . . .too difficult/ that were often difficult for participant’s arthritic hands. Figure ?. Box of Products Results A collection of conceptual or speculative designs which were informed and inspired by the research process emerged. Speculative designs are conceptual products that suggest new applications for technology and are informed and inspired by peoples’ experiences (cite Dunne & Gaver, 1997). Rather than being influenced by traditional metrics such as manufacturability, costeffectiveness, and market penetration, these designs are meant to draw attention to changes that occur with aging and demonstrate how insight into those changing fan fuel innovative design appropriate for all generations. -most importantly ideas that could not have emerged without first becomine aware of my experiences differ from users . . – markedly differente from my experience -Effectivley, business, think outside, llook beyong the tunnel vision results in beinc gin a company, too familiar with ways of doing things. “tunnel vision” which can result from becoming to familiar or accuswtomed to thinking about their product line. –break out of, people become so focus and familiar with their way of doing things can not see more innovative or user centered solutions, though never go to market, helpful in making this happen. Book Bottles Bending, stretching, and reaching is effortless for me, but for users twice my age these activities were strenuous for many. Cleaning products are usually stored in overhead cabinets or underneath sinks and accessing them becomes more difficult with encroaching age. This insight inspired “Book Bottle” (Figure ?). Instead of hiding cleaning supplies in hard to reach places, I suggest making them a seamless part of user’s everyday experience. By challenging the traditional spray bottle form factor and designing the bottle to look like a book attempts to do this. 10 had never purchased a Hummel, unfamiliar, struck by 3 of the participants highly prized them. Indicated that cleaned very carefully -things would not let clean . . . -sentimental and financial value to owners. The humeel cleaner is a delicate prcess appropriate for przed prossesions. Figurins carefull soak in a padded tub full of a cleaning solutions specially formulate for cleaning porcelan. The tub is line with cushions so figurines parts are not broken, it is a delicate approach for cleaning a delicate object. Figure ?. Book Bottles Untouchables Ten of the 18 elders interviewed describing receiving assistance with housework. When I asked if there were items they objected . . .hired help to touch stirred stories . . . . . .stirred stories about broked. Particuallry struck by attachment with Hummel figuring, something neverl collected, handled gingerly, obvious ecomnicam value and personal . . .Struck that . . .needed a cleaning process that refltect it . . . -careless -hummels are popular figurines created by a Bavarian nun in the early 1900’s represent themes of you than dlove. The small porcelean scultputes of children are highly collectable in the United States and abroad. I Figure ?. Untouchables (note I want to redraw this picture) Calorie Counting Spray Bottle When I exercise on a treadmill I receive feedback on the number of miles run and calories burned. Some 11 older adults described housework as their daily exercise. What some older adults experiences while performing housework was similar to what I experiences at the gym, however elders do not receive similar feedback. The “Calorie Counting Spray Bottle” (Figure ?) is a concept meant to provide the experiential properties found in exercise equipment. Inside the bottle’s spraying mechanism is an odometer that changes every time the user pulls the trigger. If you were to apply seven squirts of glass cleaner to a surface, the odometer would read “7.” The bottle’s label has a chart to inform users how many calories they burn following each squirt. For example, 50 pulls may equal 5 calories burned. The idea is speculative and no research was conducted to determine the number of calories (if any) burned while spraying cleaner. The concepts’s intet in to draw attention . . .broader meaning, can’t understand . . ..based on our experience . . .that menaing recourse for design. “Pez” packaging -inspired by the enormously popular wipes, and arthritic hands difficulty opening packaging . . . -demonstrates inspiration – making connections between cleaning and seemingly . . .new metaphors for interaction, not typically used. The pastic box features a large opening which better facilitates a range of accuracy and precision for arthritic hands. Users place their hand in the roomy opening and pull-up, this activates a pez-like spring mechanizsm which dispenses a wipe. – making connections, new metaphors . . . -drew from a metaphor often seen in Pez, candy, respond difficult opeingn packages, easy and intuitive Figure ?. “Pez” Inspired Packaging Figure ?. Calorie Counting Spray Bottle 12 Bottle Monocle The labeling on commonly used cleaning products was too small for elders to read. This made it difficult for them to determine if the product was dangerous or appropriate to use for some tasks. The Bottle Monocle is a spray bottle equipped with a bendable monocle – that is inviting to touch and able to be positioned to wherever users needs it, whether that be to read the label or magnify dirt and grime. This concepts draws attention to the need for products to change with user throughout their lifecourse. Products do not acknowledge that users are evolving, needs cahngin . . .representec in products. Potential of this approach is that . . .open new space, acknowledge that the diversity in needs, values, Hands and Knees Polish “I was a hands-and-knees washer and still want to be, but I can’t get up and down like I used too. But you have to be down on your hands and knees to really do the job.” Sentiment echoed by nearly every participant. Intensity, attention to detail that comes with being on the floor next to dirt. “Hands and knees” floor polish . .. responds to this . . .Is a powerful floor polish made hands and knee gell – action scrubbers, the fictitous product cleans as powerfulle, thoroughly and effectively as a person down on their hands and knees . -playful self reflection about how elder would prefer to clean their homes. behaviors, and abilities goes beyond the design community. -Successful to SCJ- concepts which differ –potential alternatives to core assumptions about the products they manufacture. -outline a powerful approach that is much neede in product design today. It allows us to rething dominant metaphors, aware of how map own values, abilities, ways fo doing things on the what we design. Figure ?. Bottle Monocle 13 Akrich, M. “User representations: Practices, methods, and sociology.” In Managing Technology in Society: The Approach of Constructive Technology Assessment, ed. A.Rip, T.J. Misa, and J. Schot. Pinter. 1995. (this book is hard to find, right now I am actually citing in from another source but have ordered my own copy) Forlizzi, J. Hirsch, T., Hyder, E., and Goetz, J. “Designing Pleasurable Technology for Elders.” Include Conference on Inclusive Design. 2001. Friedman, B. “Value-Sensitive Design.” Interactions, 3,6. pgs. 16-24. 1996 Figure ?. Hands and Knees Floor Polish Gaver, B. and Dunne, T. “The Pillow: Artist-Designers in the Digital Age.” CHI 1997 Gaver, B., Dunne, T., and Pacenti, E. “Cultural Probes.” Interactions, pgs. 21-29. 1999. Conclusion Users are as different as . . .we can not fully anticipate their interests, skills, motives, and behaviors of users. -reflect more on ourselves not only who we are in terms of age and ability, but culturally, economically, race, gender . . .open up broader experience . -ever increasing self-awreness References IDEO. Ideo Method Cards: 51 Ways to inspire design. (figure out how to cite these) IDSA – information on designers’ average age. Kelley, T. The Art of Innovation. New York, NY: Doubleday Perkins, N. “Women Designers: Making Difference.” In Design and Feminism, ed. Joan Rothschild. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers University Press, 1999. Plowman, T. “Ethnography and Critical Design Practice.” In Design Research: Methods and Perspectives, ed. B. Laurel. Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press, 2003. 14 Salvador, T., Bell, G. and Anderson, K. “Design Ethnography.” Design Management Journal, 10, 4, 1999. Sengers, P. (need to figure out which paper to cite) Sengers, P. “Doomed to Repeat? How History Can (and Should!) Inform Home Technology.” CHI 2003 Workshop on Designing Culturally Situated Technologies for the Home. Ft. Lauderdale, FL, April 2003. available online: Vanek, J. “Time Spent in Housework.” Scientific America, 231, pgs. 116-120. 1974. Wyche, unpublished mater’s thesis. Acknowledgements I am grateful to S.C. Johnson and Company for funding this project. In addition, I thank Phoebe Sengers, Lorraine Maxwell, and Johanna Schoss for their attentive advising during my two years at Cornell University. Finally, this project what not have evolved without the valuable insights and inspiration from Genevieve Bell and Patricia Moore. MORE TO COME LATER 15