LICENSING AND APPEALS SUB-COMMITTEE
Minutes of a meeting of the Licensing and Appeals Sub-Committee held on 12
October 2011 in the Council Chamber, Council Offices, Holt Road, Cromer at
10.00am.
1
Sub-Committee
Mr J Wyatt (Chairman)
Mr B Smith
Mrs A C Sweeney
Officers in Attendance:
The Legal Advisor, the Licensing Manager, the Licensing
Administrator and the Democratic Services Team Leader
Also in Attendance:
Mr Chatham (for item 5), Mr Thurling (for item 6)
APOLOGIES
None received.
2
ITEMS OF URGENT BUSINESS
None received.
3
DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST
None
4
EXCLUSION OF THE PRESS AND PUBLIC
Members decided that they wished to go into Private session for items 5 and 6 and to
hear fully from the Applicant and consider matters in confidence.
RESOLVED
That under S100 A (4) of the Local Government Act 1972, the public and press be
excluded from the meeting for Agenda Item No 4 on the grounds that it involved the
likely disclosure of exempt information as defined in paragraph 1 of Part 1 of
Schedule 12 (a) of the Act.
5
WK/110020305 – APPLICATION FOR A LICENCE TO DRIVE HACKNEY
CARRIAGE OR PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES IN NORTH NORFOLK
The Applicant was present.
The Chairman introduced the Panel and Officers. The Legal Advisor outlined the
procedure. She explained that, at a later stage, the Panel would withdraw to make
their decision. She would accompany them to provide legal advice and to assist them
to formulate their reasons but would not take part in the making of the decision. The
Applicant needed to satisfy the Sub Committee that he was a fit and proper person to
drive a hackney carriage or private hire vehicles in North Norfolk.
The Applicant had brought no witnesses and there was no new evidence.
Licensing Sub-Committee
1
12 October 2011
WK/110020305 – APPLICATION FOR A LICENCE TO DRIVE HACKNEY
CARRIAGE OR PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES IN NORTH NORFOLK
(Continued)
The Licensing Manager outlined the application. There were items on the Applicant’s
CRB check which merited further consideration. The CRB was presented to the
Committee for perusal.
The Applicant put his case. He informed the Committee of the nature and specific
circumstances of the offences, for which he expressed regret. All but one of the
matters was committed over 30 years ago. He provided information about his current
domestic situation.
The Legal Advisor explained the determination process; to grant a licence, Members
must be satisfied that the Applicant was a fit and proper person to drive a taxi in
North Norfolk.
a) Members would need to consider the Applicant’s previous offences.
b) They must consider what the Applicant said in regard to the offences.
c) They must balance the right of the Applicant to earn a living with the right of
the public to be safe.
The Sub Committee retired at 10.20 am to consider their decision and returned at
10.35 am.
The Chairman told the Applicant that in deciding the application, the Sub-Committee
had taken into account the information from the Licensing Manager in considering his
suitability to hold a taxi licence in North Norfolk. The Sub-Committee also took into
account the information that the Applicant had put forward, including his CRB
disclosure. The Licensing Sub-Committee took into account not only the Applicant’s
interests but also the interests of the general public.
Having considered relevant written and oral evidence before it, the Sub-Committee
had found that all but one of the offences were committed over 30 years ago. It had
found that the more recent matter, a caution, was a one-off and that the Applicant
was now in a settled relationship and regretted his previous behaviour. The SubCommittee deemed that the Applicant was a fit and proper person to hold a taxi
licence.
RESOLVED
To grant the licence.
6
WK110004802 – APPLICATION FOR A LICENCE TO DRIVE HACKNEY
CARRIAGE OR PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES IN NORTH NORFOLK
The Applicant was present.
The Chairman introduced the Panel and Officers. The Legal Advisor outlined the
procedure. She explained that, at a later stage, the Panel would withdraw to make
their decision. She would accompany them to provide legal advice and to assist them
to formulate their reasons but would not take part in the making of the decision. The
Applicant needed to satisfy the Sub Committee that he was a fit and proper person to
drive a hackney carriage or private hire vehicles in North Norfolk.
Licensing Sub-Committee
2
12 October 2011
WK110004802 – APPLICATION FOR A LICENCE TO DRIVE HACKNEY
CARRIAGE OR PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES IN NORTH NORFOLK
(Continued)
The Applicant had brought no witnesses and there was no new evidence.
The Licensing Manager outlined the application and its history. The application had
originally been made in March 2011. It had been incomplete and remained dormant
until May 2011 while the Council waited for a CRB from the Applicant. The Applicant
obtained a CRB through Norfolk County Council. He was advised that CRBs were no
longer portable and that he would have to obtain another one under the umbrella of
North Norfolk District Council. The Applicant explained that he had already waited for
12 weeks to obtain a CRB and that further delay would cause him extreme financial
hardship.
The Applicant’s CRB and DVLA Drivers Licence contained details which merited
further investigation. A Hearing was scheduled for 15 June 2011. The Applicant
attended but was unable to provide the documents required and it was resolved
to adjourn the application to 13 July 2011.
On 13 July the Sub Committee discussed the risk of considering a CRB from another
authority, as it would not be as up-to-date as it could be. The panel needed to
balance the Applicant’s right to earn a living against the right of the travelling public to
be safe. It was their decision to adjourn the Hearing and request a CRB under the
umbrella body of North Norfolk District Council and reconvene following receipt of
updated CRB. The updated CRB had been subsequently received.
The Licensing Manager told the Sub Committee that, if they were minded to grant the
licence, the Applicant had received an offer of employment from an existing licensed
operator.
The CRB and DVLA driving licence was inspected by the Sub Committee.
The Applicant put his case. He informed the Sub Committee of previous matters
which appeared on the Criminal Records Bureau document and of the nature and
specific circumstances of the offences, for which he expressed regret. The Sub
Committee was informed that the Applicant had a conditional caution this year for
criminal damage, and an earlier caution for battery, and that he had a drink-drive
conviction in 2009 for which he was disqualified for 12 months. He also had a
speeding endorsement in 2008 and a further criminal damage conviction in 2003.
The Applicant told the Sub Committee that he desperately needed to work to provide
for his family.
The Legal Advisor explained the determination process. To grant a licence, Members
must be satisfied that the Applicant was a fit and proper person to drive a taxi in
North Norfolk.
a) Members would need to consider the Applicant’s previous offences.
b) They must consider what the Applicant said in regard to the offences.
c) They must balance the right of the Applicant to earn a living with the right of
the public to be safe.
The Sub Committee retired at 11.00 am to consider their decision and returned at
11.15 am.
Licensing Sub-Committee
3
12 October 2011
WK110004802 – APPLICATION FOR A LICENCE TO DRIVE HACKNEY
CARRIAGE OR PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLES IN NORTH NORFOLK
(Continued)
The Chairman told the Applicant that in deciding the application, the Sub Committee
had taken into account the information from the Licensing Manager in considering his
suitability to hold a taxi licence in North Norfolk. The Sub Committee also took into
account the information put forward by the Applicant, including his CRB disclosure
and a copy of his driving licence. The Licensing Sub Committee took into account not
only the interests of the Applicant but also the interests of the general public.
Having considered relevant written and oral evidence before it, the Sub Committee
had paid particular attention to the drink-drive conviction. The Sub Committee
informed the Applicant that it was a difficult decision and that he should be aware that
were he to be convicted of drink-driving again, it was likely that he would be
disqualified from driving for at least 3 years and would be unlikely to retain a taxi
licence. The Sub Committee considered that it was important that the public should
be safe in taxis. The committee listened to what the Applicant said about that
conviction, and the other matters. It accepted that he was in a stable relationship and
a devoted father wanting to support his family and that he recognised the mistakes
he had made in the past. On balance, having listened to and considered all the
information, the Sub Committee deemed that the Applicant was a fit and proper
person to drive a taxi.
RESOLVED
to grant the licence.
The meeting concluded at 11.22
___________________
Chairman
Licensing Sub-Committee
4
12 October 2011