PNWCG
Steering Committee
March 24, 2004
Minutes
Bob Anderson, WA Fire Chiefs
Cory Winnie, BIA
John Kraushaar, NPS
Denise Reinhart, Facilitator
Mark Kahley, WA DNR
Laurie Perrett, FS, Chair
Pam Ensley, FWS
Bonnie Wood, Ex. Director
Guests:
Roy Montgomery, Blue Ribbon Panel, Contracting
Paul Rose, Fire Business Management
Bonnie Wood-Working with ODF Fire Program review, one of the
subcommittee’s would like to work with PNWCG in tasking two different
working teams; Fuels Working Team for development of maintenance
strategy, and GIS for identifying the many varied GIS projects/systems
that are being used or developed around the Pacific NW. (Both of these
are in the very early stages). More work will be done to draft the task
orders for Steering Committee review.
Discussion evolved to a discussion on prioritization of communities at risk
and the status in each state.
Discussion regarding, the role and work of the Fuels Working Group.
Laurie proposed the Steering Committee task the Fuels Working Group with
a Task Order to review the Interagency Fuels Strategy and provide the
Steering Committee a update of Working Team program of work.
 How is the strategy being shared with communities doing community
fire protection planning.
 How is the working team working within the agencies to communicate
the fuels strategy.
 Is the strategy being applied by the PNWCG agencies in their
programs of work.
Roy Montgomery-Blue Ribbon Panel Report
Roy has received very little feedback to the information the Panel has
shared with IC’s, other committees and fire managers. The Panel is moving
forward with the very little feedback they have.
Roy is preparing for several presentations of nationally significance,
including the PNWCG sponsored contracting association meetings in the
northwest.
Developing a monitoring plan for the strategic plan is the step the Panel is
working on now. Roy will be presenting the Panel’s Strategic Plan to the
Steering Committee in April for approval in May. The monitoring plan will
also be approved in May.
SC feedback to Roy:
 Send the Strategic Plan to SC members as soon as possible for
review. SC members will review the Strategic Plan BEFORE the
meeting. At the April meeting the SC will with Roy go through the
whole Strategic Plan, including action plan and monitoring plan.
 2 hours will be allocated for this.
National IC feedback-via Bob Anderson. Mike Lohrey is the designated
National IC contact. (Bob’s feedback was just off the top of his head).
1. A national contract-not a State contract- and use the Oregon
Contract. (The majority of the existing contractors work under the
Oregon contract, so keep that contract as they are familiar with it).
2. Define the quantity and what is needed. (i.e. how many crews do we
need under contract).
3. Configuration-perhaps have the contract resources configured as
strike teams-engines and crews because they would come with STL.
The Strategic Plan deals with contract resources, on AD crews such as SRV
Crews. It only deals with true contract crews. (AD is a payment tools for
crews such as SRV crews).
Roy mentioned the PNWCG Chair needs to be prepared to present the
Strategic Plan at the May NWCG meeting.
Mark Kahley, there will probably be a need for the SC to put together a
human resources strategy for the Strategic Plan. (Fair Act Inventory).
Bob Anderson asked a question about contract rates around the country. The
NW has gone to daily rates and the other regions are still at hourly rates.
The logic in the NW is that we have so many contractors the daily rate has
been easier to manage.
Paul Rose-AD’s Review Rates, carry over from Nov. 03 Discussion.
Hand out-Chart correlating Positions in AD Pay Plan. Rates 1-5 with ICS.
Nationally all the rates, 1-5, were frozen from 03. Nationally there is a
study ongoing to determine “appropriate rates.” Until the study is done, the
rates have been frozen. The rates are set by an interagency group, most
(all) members of the group are not fire personnel. Bob Anderson commented
the rates should relate to supply and demand, rather than all skills being
equal and equally paid.
Handout-Any of the AD-5 listed with a rate we cannot change at the
local/regionally hiring point. The far right column is the rate PNWCG
recommended, last year, and they were not accepted by the NWCG, Business
Working Group sub committee that is working on AD rates. This is federal
interagency. The states agreed to “try to follow the rates” they have
followed it but are not bound by it.
Washington has made 3 changes, Single Resource Boss, Firefighter 1&2 and
Communications Tech.
YOU MAY WANT TO MAKE THE FOLLOWING CHANGES TO YOUR
HANDOUT. (I will send those of you not in attendance a hard copy without
the changes).
Changes to the Handout:
 Add ICT5 as a AD-4
 Pilots-AD rate has expired; new rate maximum would be $35.
AGREED (If we don’t establish a rate then its up to the hiring unit to
set a rate).
 IADP, Initial Attack Dispatcher-AD-5 at $22
Note increased rates for AD-4, these rates were increased because we find
they are difficult to recruit for at the National Rate.
o Crew boss rate is NW rate of $20.
o Take off and Landing Coordinator (TOLC) was down graded to
an AD 4 from an AD 5,
o DOCL will be $20
o FOBS will be $20
o WOBS was downgraded to a 3 from 5
o BCMG rates are $20 for AD-4
o EQPM rates are $20 for AD-4
o THSP rates are $22 for AD-5
For AD hires that do not have a national rate or a geographic rate
(northwest), the Agency Administrator has to sign off on negotiated rates.
Bob asked that Paul clean up the table to remove the NW recommended rate
so it is not so confusing.
Paul will review last years letter to the Agency Administrators, and try to
not change the process, except for Agency Administrators must sign the
locally agreed rates. A notation will be made about the difference between
state procedures and federal procedures. Laurie will sign the letter as Chair
because the letter is a recommendation to the Agency Administrators.
Liz Kinney, from the Forest Service SE Region will be coming to the NW on
120 detail behind Paul. Liz is in a similar position to Paul’s in the SE.
June meeting with PNWCG Agency Executives Draft Agenda
Reviewed last June’s meeting and November’s meeting with Execs.
More time for Q/A from Execs.
Cramer-what has come out of that for policy changes?
Do we want to ask the Execs. To speak again in terms of
expectations?
 National Fire Plan update-Bonnie Wood
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Issues Resource Availability-tankers,
 MEL/FPA federal budget (FPA summarized briefing)
Executives time (if they want it) (2-3 minutes each)
 Key Issues that are ripe for this interagency group to deal with From
the Agency Executives of the PNWCG
 What’s hot in the agencies
Fire Program Analysis-the new Federal model for Fire Protection BudgetingPam Ensley (15 minutes)
Weather predictions (10 minutes-the evening new version)(Gerry Day)
National Fire Plan update (30 minutes-20 minutes with Q/A)
Grants/Community Protection Plans & Prioritization
NAPA latest report-(20 minutes, 10 minutes Q/A-Pat Kelly)
PNWCG member list, and who really shows up (handout)
Round Robin:
Laurie Perrett-The FS Fire & Aviation Director position will be filled, it
closed on March 22. There may be a month or two with an Acting, who has
not yet been named.
WFSA Training for Agency Administrator, one in WA one in Oregon.
Dates-OR will be in Redmond, May 19-20 Karen Curtiss
WA will be in Leavenworth, Fire District #3 April 27-28, Myrna Duke is the
contact.
FS intends to have the same level of protection that was available last year,
although not yet fully funded.
BLM side the expectation is similar as is the funding.
The WA LOT is considering a case study or two in the State of Washington.
Objective is to review a couple fires from last year as an examples or case
studies to generate discussion about ways to prepare for this year.
Tentatively set for April 29, probably in Wenatchee.
Cremer Incident. Accident Prevention Plan had 5 items1. Look at leadership training
2. Develop an interim process that is simulation based for IC 2004.
Forest Service is testing the simulation, two tries to pass,
approximately 240 Type III Ids.
3. Consider institutionalizing the simulation training. Work with NWCG
to see if
4. Administrative Review-currently going on.
5. Continue work on the 30-mile implementation.
John Kraushaar-NPS
Sue Husari will be at the next meeting instead of John. The Crater Lake
FMO is vacant. Park Service has been exempted from the latest DOI IT
shut down.
Susie Bates, formerly the Regional Aviation Manager, transferring to Boise.
Unknown if they will be able to fill permanently. A 120 detailer is in place.
Probably advertised as a 12/13 if they are able to fill.
VICE Ken Till, intending to fill, hoping to advertise soon. Advertised as a
duty station anywhere in the region as long as it’s near a jet port. Supervisor
for Fuels and compliance. This will probably be advertised as a 11/12.
Pam Ensley-FWS
The latest DOI IT shut down has severely impacted the internet and
communication capabilities in the agency. Unknown when there will be e-mail
capabilities again.
Agency is taking a hard look at how the NFP funds are distributed.
Positions, re-flying the Deputy GS-13 position.
Re-advertising VICE Roddy Baumann former position. GS-12
Agency will probably be advertising a position in San Francisco.
Bob Anderson-WA Fire Chiefs
Spokane District took the lead to prepare a proposal for hiring of local fire
service resources by states and federal agencies. The proposal is out for
review in draft, comments are coming in. Fire Service is working with WA
DNR, goal is to have an agreement for 05 Fire Season.
Spokane County is looking at adapting 310-1 guidelines for their employees,
with peer review. Working with DNR on the peer review procedure.
IC’s National IC and Deputy meeting in San Diego.
Jerry Williams and Larry Hamilton, FEMA, Homeland Security, CDF, San
Diego City Fire and others were also there.
Issues discussed:
1. cost containmentif you want to contain costs, deal with the fuels.
2. cost containment-high costs come from the political decisions that are
made.
NIMO-national IC’s recognize the need to have some form of NIMO, but,
there is substantial discussion and disagreement on which option and what
level. There is also recognition that it is only a partial solution and dos not
deal with the whole picture in regards to fuels and fire suppression resource
capacity which will be required.
Developed a resolution in support of hazardous fuels reduction.
USMC and Tom Harbor presented a concept regarding leadership training
that Tom has been working with on his SCS work.
Area Command-Lesson Learned from Montana. Branching Area Command will
likely be done more in the future, it appeared to be effective 2003 with Rex
Mann’s team.
Tom Harbor is back in the Forest Service WO. WFSA-Review Team was
supposed to take a look at the WFSA software and re-write it. The re-write
isn’t going to happen for this fire season.
WFSA, there has been a committee (Tim Sexton) that developed some
improvement to existing WFSA process (primarily dealing with
selection/development of least cost alternatives and certification) however
the total re-write is still to be done.
Jerry Williams’ discussion with the ICs included a piece on common
denominators for fatality fires; they occur in heavy fuels, high fire danger,
multiple ignition IA in the area, and they occurred on well respected units.
Mark Kahley-WA DNR
DNR was paid for all their fire costs last year. (Legislative Action).
A Forest Health Study was in the works in the legislature, didn’t become
legislation. DNR will go ahead with a Forest Health study, even though
unfunded.
DNR will be hiring on time this season. Expect to be at the same level as
last year.
Picked up their second Cobra helicopter, will mean a total of 7 helicopters
available this year. All the helios will be staged at Ellensburg as last year.
The Cobras will likely be re-staged based on the situation, then probably at
airports with some support capabilities.
Roger Autrey, will fill the Emergency Operations/ Head Dispatcher position.
Concern about the federal borrowing concept as it impacts Forest Service
State and Private funds.
Cory Winnie-BLM
Obviously IT is an issues.
BIA has been instructed to do separate agreements for every payment item.
Even with the Master Agreement, separate agreements have to be written.
Hired a new person in GIS position at NWC, Kim Kelly. The latest DOI IT
shut down has not directly impacted the fire personnel in fire. The previous
judge’s order did impact them.
AwardsGeneral discussion regarding awards and recognition for PNWCG working
teams, special task groups, etc. Good discussion. Bonnie Wood will bring a
proposal back next week.
Contractor Meeting Agenda-PNWCG & Contractor Association Meeting
Next meeting is April 6, 0930-1500
Agenda items-issues.
 Address action items from previous meeting
 1 Hour Brief by Roy Montgomery on the Blue Ribbon Panel Strategic
Plan
 Engine/Tender internet qualifications and inspections; required for all
contractors to complete.
 Predictive services changes an updates-20-30 minutes
 IACR re-occurring and common issues from the IACR perspectives.
 Appropriate behavior (IC’s)
Computer Model for Engine/Tender Contracts-EATIS-Laurie Perrett
Laurie shared a handout of the screens within this web-based application.
The Forest Service has awarded three contracts:
1. checking/reviewing contractor qualifications, went to IMST (Ken
White met with the Steering committee last spring).
2. Oregon equipment inspection
3. Washington equipment inspection
Contract Research-Laurie
Soon to be out for peer review. A researcher was contracted to compare
the cost differences between a Forest Service crew and contract crews.
Preliminary findings will be peer reviewed soon.
Steve Dickenson-Emergency Operations Coordinator
(VICE Mike Lowrey)
Was introduced and visit briefly.
DOI Computer Issues-Potential ramifications of DOI “shut down” of
internet computer access.
Information to date states DOI Fire (emergency) programs will come be
allowed soon.
BIA fire personnel have access to internet and have intranet access
FWS is impacted significantly at this time.
NPS was not impacted with the current court order
Impacts- Several Home Page Websites are on BLM sites.
Prevention Working Team
NW NFP Home Page
Burns and Vale BLM District Dispatch Centers
Contractor Data base for fuels treatment contractors
New qualifications web-site
FPA-Discussion
Bonnie Wood will craft a letter as a sample for the May 12 FPA presentation.
 Who should attend
 When is it, where, time
 Objective of meeting/presentation
Suggestion to add time for adjoining units to get together to review FPUs.
NEXT MEETINGAPRIL 27TH
FWS/BIA OFFICE, 3RD FLOOR CONFERENCE ROOM
TAKE LAURIE TO LUNCH, this is her last PNWCG meeting!