Pacific Northwest Coordination Group Steering Committee (PNWCG)
150 Harrison St, Portland Oregon
August 15, 2012
Final notes
Attendees: Joe Shramek, WA DNR (Proxy for Paul Perz, Washington Fire Marshal and Dave
LaFave, Washington Fire Chiefs); David Summer, USDA FS (& representing Bobbie Scopa,
BLM); Cory Winnie, BIA; Pam Ensley, USFWS; Mariah Spradlin-Crater, (Representing Oregon
State Fire Marshal); Mark Havener, Oregon Fire Chiefs; Nancy Hirsch, ODF; Pat Kelly,
Executive Director/Facilitator; Jan Mathis, notetaker; presenters: Dan O’Brien, NWCC Center
Manager. Guest: Michelle Lopez, Acting FS FAM Administrative Assistant. Called in: Bobbie
Scopa, BLM.
Leader’s Intent
Joe Shramek
Due to the press of fire season and the opportunity that we’ve got to spend some time face-to-face
this would be a good time to list our priority topics and discuss. We’ll spend some time this
afternoon on MAC topics and talk about where we’re at and where we want to be.
Today’s agenda
Finalize
(Handout 1 – PNWCG SC Meeting agenda Aug 18, 2012, 1 p)
National Perspective
Joe Shramek / David Summer
FS lens – R5, Southern California, when they become a major player that keeps all their assets in
CA and there’s a need for more assets. What will happen when we’re looking at fires that are now
5 to 6 digits in size in many western locations? This could get very political and emotional. In the
next three weeks, we may find that we won’t have enough resources. Our daily prioritizations will
be crucial as well as agencies working together in a collaborative effort, and to speak with one
voice. Agency Administrators and Incident Commanders will need to define success as “doing
what you can with what you’ve got.” This message needs to be sent out to the public. How do
you deploy forces when you don’t have the resources? This puts tremendous stress on the system.
(Summer)
CalFire is starting to pull resources in order to deal with their fires which is putting more strain on
federal fires. Every FS region is responding differently to the Hubbard letter which directs that all
fires be suppressed. For example, in Southern California, they are going for full perimeter control
on all of their fires, which is causing a drain, because so many resources are in South Ops.
(Husari)
We need to get our Agency Administrators more engaged with our employees, red-carded and
non red-carded folks. (Ensley)
A Declaration of an Emergency was done for Central Washington which allowed the National
Guard to put heavy helicopters on the Taylor Bridge incident. (Shramek)
 Draft up a letter from PNWCG on the current situation
 Express a unified message
8.15.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 1


Executive to leverage the message
Tone should be unique
o Emphasize current
o Vision statement on safety
o Dutch Creek Protocols considering visibility
o We need your help
This letter was sent under Joe’s signature PM of August 15th.
 Net Briefing for AA on Thursday Aug 16, 2012 at 1600 hrs. Dan to draft the invite
and send to the PNWCG SC members. The SC members to distribute out to their
agencies.
Ops Plan Smokey and an extended discussion of Fire Season preparedness Nancy Hirsch
Not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when. Idaho Governor may have already requested a medevac
ship from the Oregon Governor. ODF is doing internal work. This would mean one less ship for
our GACC.
Assessing if there are any 10-person crews rather than a 20-person crews. If the contract allows
for it, we need to be as nimble as possible.
What are the triggers and when do we make that call. Do we have a fire that would pay for the
training.
T1 heli (guard) increases our safety, efficiency and effectiveness side, having a 48 hour turnkey to
push play will make mobilization smoother. If we get a decision by Thursday am, would we have
a place to put them by Saturday? Using the T1 helicopter across state lines could be done, ie.
Barry Point incident into Northern California. (Hirsch)
For National Guard firefighters, we need to match the fire to their capabilities (which are very
specific). (Husari)
T2 agreement crews are always the last to go out. Military assets are typically used to do the mop
up on large fires. We’re not at that point yet. However, if the heavy helicopters can fly across
state lines, we should pull the trigger. (Dan O’Brien)
Use surge capacity for other resources such as Ops Chiefs due to shortages (ie. Dan O’Brien could
use additional Ops Chiefs). Who should coordinate that effort? Would like to look at agency
personnel rather than ADs. (Summer)
Nancy H. could begin the work on her end to coordinate and facilitate with training and have a
point person. (ADs)
Liaison to the GIS group issue
Sue Husari
A new liaison to the GIS group will be needed on the Steering Committee. The current liaison
recommends that the new liaison be either the USFS or the BLM because of the strong linkage
between the current chair’s normal duties and the work of the GIS group.
8.15.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 2
PNW IMT’S, numbers/make-up of teams, next 3 year IMT commitments.
Pam Ensley
This topic added to our running agenda list for later this fall list.
Shared interests on common approach to
a fire prevention message, teams
David Summer
Given the current situation, do we need to bring in a national prevention team to convey the
message? Prevention teams can be activated at PL4 levels. Who makes that happen?
If we have an interest in having something done, let Lauren Maloney7 know and she can
coordinate getting teams activated.
ODF is going to start aggressively promoting a prevention message. (Hirsch)
Happy to engage more collectively with other agencies and share what’s in the works.
How can we communicate the prevention message collectively?
When any other national emergency occurs (ie. earthquakes, etc), the multiple agencies involved
get together and deliver a common message through the media.
Looking forward, it would be beneficial to have some type of mechanism in-place to communicate
a common prevention message.
Let’s be vigilant about agency messaging, however we should let it all play out this season. This is
a good business case to change this approach during the fall/winter months. (Summer)
Dan O’Brien can have Carol Connolly, at the NWCC media desk, put out a message out to the
media from the PNWCG. Be careful with fire, we need everyone’s help to keep firefighters safe.
Proposed discussion with contract associations
Bobbie Scopa
The contractor associations are expressing concerns that they’re not being heard and they’ve lost
an ear with SORO.
It may be worthwhile to give them an opportunity to have a discussion and let each association
have 20-30 minutes to raise their issues and concerns.
Collective interest to engage the contract associations in a panel format with one or two key
questions: ie. how the season went; what are their concerns. (Summer)
We should lean into this, these folks are important to us. We’ll be allowing heavily on contractors
in the future. We should do this after the fire season. Express that they have value to us, be
inclusive and transparent with our intentions. (Shramek)
The PNWCG SC should have discussion beforehand, identify some of the issues that we know
they’re concerned about.
8.15.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 3
Changing the process that they are qualified, sign off when we met their quals. We changed that,
and it’s really not working. LuAnn and Tony are checking records and the records aren’t jiving
with our records, at the rate of 50%.
Have a third party agreement would review and certify their qualification. That would get the FS
out of the business of subsidizing the industry. We need to talk about this. (Bobbie Scopa)
There are two pieces to this:
1) Current issue, operations
2) The future
 Make this a future agenda item (perhaps for November).
 Bobbie Scopa will write an issue paper about this topic for September agenda. (note
to myself: Jan to remind Bobbie…
Current situation and UTFs (Unable to fills)
Dan O’Brien
7 T2 crews in RAC Mob.
Work with Kevin Donham:
2 Shot Crews on Fort Complex, 3 fires, all but one is contained.
RR/Siskyou Shots to come up. Get all 3 crews back and package them up into a surge task
force and make them available incident by incident.
Buckhead complex:
2 Shot Crews
5 T2 IA
Rappel
Heli
Pulled shot crews off and will be going to Warm Springs to join the Warm Springs shot crew that’s
already there on Waterfalls 2.
2 of the T2 teams from RAC mob to go to the Willamette NF.
If we could get the message across that it’s more important to take on the mission rather than stay
with your team as a single resource. (David Summer)
Break for lunch at 1145 hrs, reconvened at 1215 hrs.
Looking and reviewing the worst case template for the MAC plan
(Refer to pp 22-25 MAC Operating Handbook)
Dan O’Brien
How do we do business when we’re in a worst case scenario? The same way as a steering
committee or as a MAC with a quorum?
A few suggestions: conduct face-to-face meetings every day or every other day? Perhaps meet
every fourth day and intersperse with conference calls?
8.15.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 4
When any member of the SC has concerns, they can call Joe Shramek. (for example, this isn’t
working for me politically).
Make the MAC support a Super-MAC support. Scale that up until it gets as big as possible in
terms of staff work. (Summer)
What the MAC needs is a thumbs up or thumbs down on the prioritization and the rationale.
If it’s a thumbs down, then will need direction from PNWCG SC. If you feel that what
you’re getting from the MAC isn’t good enough, then that will be the trigger to have a faceto-face meeting. (Dan O’Brien)
National Guard crews, even though it takes 5 days to get this resource. If we don’t go with that
option, we’re going to have to look into extending the current crews that are ready to time out next
week.
A big concern is funding, it would cost $750,000 to 1,000,000 to train 325 National Guard
firefighters. Who would shoulder that burden? (Hirsch)
The lion’s share of the expense goes to the FS. The request would have to be coordinated through
the national office. (Summer)
Finding someone to do the training is a challenge (Ensley)
A suggestion would be to approach a non-affected GACC to put the training sessions together.
This has worked well in the past. )
Hot Topics
Decision-making during PL4 & 5
Sue Husari
The group reviewed NMAC direction on decision-making for prescribed fires and fires being
managed for resource benefits.
Moonlight Fire Settlement
Nancy Hirsch
Meeting on Aug 22 being hosted by ODF to assess the potential impact of the decision.
AAR
+ Good thinking on feet allowing for fire situation
+Appreciate the discussion
+Solid trust level within the group
+Real time fire information
Meeting adjourned at 1430 hrs.
Handouts
Handout 1 – PNWCG SC Meeting agenda Aug 15, 2012, 1 p
8.15.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 5