PNWCG Steering Committee meeting
November 13, 2012
Fish and Wildlife Service and Bureau of Indian Affairs Regional Office
Final notes
Attending: Chair Joe Shramek, DNR with proxy for WFM and WFS; Vice Chair Pam Ensley,
FWL; Christie Neal, NPS; David Summer, FS with proxy from BLM; Nancy Hirsch, ODF;
Pat Kelly, Executive Director. Agency guests were LuAnn Grover and Kermadine Barton from
SORO.
Guests from Contractors Associations: Kevin Curfman and Tim Logozzo, Washington
Contract Firefighters Association; Dan Boettner and Paul Asher, Three Sisters Wildfire
Contractors Association; Butch Crume and Carla Crume, Wildland Forestry Association;
National Wildfire Suppression Association, Deborah Miley, Rickey Dice, Lee Miller and Dale
Jenner; National Firefighter Training and Carding Association Jamie Olsen; Warren Giles and
Shin Haakensen, Northwest Contract Firefighters Association.
Meeting with Contractors Associations to discuss issues of mutual interest.
Joe welcomed all and set the expectations for the day. Each association is requested to share the:
1) Successes that you experienced in 2012.
2) Primary concern experienced in 2012.
3) The top three opportunities that you see in the future.
6 associations were in attendance:
National Wildfire Suppression Association
Met with the other 5 associations to document issues. (see issue paper titled: “2012 Association
PNWCG Steering Committee Issue Paper.”). This issue paper contained the bulk of the
comments that the contractors want the Steering Committee to be aware of. In presenting the
contractors points of view the associations each took a section of the Issue Paper and gave
emphasis to it.
Overall most contractors made enough money this year to sustain themselves for another year
which was very important following several subpar years.
3 overriding issues that the contractors are concerned with: Dispatch, best value and red cards.
Washington Contract Firefighters Association
Success – no major injuries or deaths from contractors – safety emphasis.
IMTs rationed water and Gatorade on fires. Meals specifically lunches and dinner were not
good. Often fire line supplies were short.
Improvements: Consistent language on length of assignment and extensions on incidents for
contractors.
WA State Mobe plan excludes the use of private resources – agency only while contractors sat.
Is there an option to change the mobe plan? Delayed moving equipment – need to use closest
resource which includes private contractors.
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Agency folks on Colorado Fires needed more resources – PNW Contractors sat. Dispatching out
of region process needs to be clarified.
They were audited by the Department of Labor and while things turned out fine it was a
challenge.
Three Sisters –
Issue – training and instructor currency issues – retired ex agency instructors not current under
310-1 so they can’t instruct.
Good year for our members.
Wildland Forestry Association –
The Community College instructors currency requirements are not being inspected/validated.
Are they being held to the same standards?
Courses being monitored/inspected – would like to receive copies of the monitoring inspection
forms as an automatic process.
Need clarification on S courses on line – what ones are accepted by the agencies? Can
contractors utilize certificates of training issued to inmates?
Support during fire season – Portland Office – need immediate response from someone to deal
with last minute and urgent requests.
We need standardized performance evaluations for all contractors. Several type of evaluations
forms being used for engine contractors. Usually just a general evaluation – nothing specific
related to fire mgt.
Standards for performance need to be consistent between agreements. No records inspections
occurring.
Best Value – use evaluation vs. top 10. Base on percentage of resources. R5 using a new form –
compliance forms? Inspection form – these need to be identified in the agreement.
Dispatchers in Central Oregon - ROSS – contractors getting switched to available when on R&R.
Contractor is responsible for ROSS.
Clarify IS 700 requirement, 8 different IS 100 vs. ICS – clarify in hand crew agreement with
310-1.
There is a lack of alignment between 310-1 and contract references.
Online training not offered in Spanish. FFT2 aren’t required to be English speaking.
Disheartening that engines from 2 states away were used v contractors from local area.
Success was that their members got out a lot this year.
National Firefighter Training & Carding AssociationCommunity College concerns with entry level forms – use of non-certified non inspected
instructors.
Refresher Courses – State – says good for fire season, Feds say certified for 1 year.
Safety – faller and sawyers – light fitness test? Question the need for light walk test for fire line
workers v arduous.
Points of Contact – MOU chain of command – how do we get our issues taken care of?
The best thing this year was everybody going out.
Northwest Contract Firefighters Association –
Greatest success – mom and pop contractors survived the season.
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Safety – 2:1 work rest – contractors get pressure to work after long travel – incident needs them
they get pressured to work with the promise to work thru the financial issues related to extended
hours, but then there is an issue at the time of demob with excessive hours v. contract language
for double shifting.
Driving is the most hazardous thing we do as firefighters. This is made worse by
contractors moving resources to areas of high fire danger v. their dispatch area per their
agreement.
Northwest Suppression Association including a report from Debbie Miley for the Oregon
Firefighting Contractors Association who could not be present
The need Fire Operations folks to be more involved in these contracts vs. just contracting
officers is critical to really get contracts that make good sense.
The required refresher training for first year firefighters doesn’t make sense. They don’t have an
experience base to refresh.
Do the agencies really know what their resource needs are?
Bringing in out-of-Region resources before contract resources is a concern.
Contracting fire suppression resources started here. The agencies aren’t trying as hard as they
could to get work. The contractors are held to higher standards than fire departments are.
They are very appreciative of the collaborative relationship with the agencies and particularly
with the agency people that they deal with every day.
Joe then asked the Contractors Associations to propose solutions in priority order.
Their answers were:
1) Solve the dispatching situation. Have dispatchers attend a mandatory annual session which
includes working with and dispatching contract resources.
2) MOU’s ensure that the Community Colleges are held to a standard equivalent to the
contractors.
3) Get Best Value considerations into the VIPER agreements.
4) Keep up a regular pattern of PNWCG Steering Committee and Contractors Associations
meetings.
5) Develop consistency between agreements. There is too much one size fits all. National
Templates are seen as a step backward. Tender Operators may be at greater risk from fire than
their fitness standard would indicate.
6) Standardization is needed to bring fire department folks into fitness and experience levels
comparable with contractors.
7) FESA group (Please confirm this reference). Is made up of Contracting Officers. It badly
needs operations side participation.
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The PNWCG Steering Committee commented:
David – The NW has 65% of the Nations Contract Resources.
You all deserve to have the phone answered when you have an issue. I’ll work on ensuring that
that happens. At the peak of activity this year there were about 21,000 firefighters deployed.
This is down considerably from other recent peak years. The Forest Service’s overall fire
expenditures were 2.4 million. (Verify this number).
Joe concluded the meeting by thanking the Contractors Associations for their candid and
thoughtful presentations. The opportunity for one on one interaction followed.
AAR
+Productive meeting
+Covered a lot of important issues
The meeting adjourned at 12:45pm.
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