Pacific Northwest Coordination Group Steering Committee (PNWCG)
150 Harrison St, Portland Oregon
October 17, 2012
Final notes
Attendees: Chair Joe Shramek, WA DNR; Dave LaFave, Washington Fire Chiefs; David Summer,
USDA FS; Bobbie Scopa, BLM; Cory Winnie, BIA; Vice Chair Pam Ensley, USFWS; Christie
Neill, NPS; Mark Havener, Oregon Fire Chiefs (representing Jim Walker, Oregon Fire Marshal)
Nancy Hirsch, ODF; Bill Slosson (representing Paul Perz, WA State Fire Marshal); Pat Kelly,
Executive Director/Facilitator; Jan Mathis, notetaker; presenters: Dan O’Brien, NWCC Center
Manager. Presenters: Joel Rogauskas, TWT Chair; Shelby Gales, BLM; Nick Giannettino,
NIMO.
Leader’s Intent
Joe Shramek
Welcome to Christie Neill, our new representative for the NPS. Thank you to Bobbie Scopa for all
of her good work as representative for BLM. It was a busy season and a lot of lessons were
learned. Our agenda will address some of those lessons learned while continuing to maintain our
focus on three objectives:
1) Safety program.
2) Evolution of IMT implementation.
3) Stay on top of developments of the Cohesive Strategy.
Today’s agenda
Pat Kelly
(Handout 1 – PNWCG SC Meeting agenda Oct 17, 2012, 2 p)
September notes
Jan Mathis
(Handout 2 – PNWCG SC Sept 19, 2012 meeting notes, 4 pp)
Current Task Orders/tracking
Pat Kelly
(Handout 3 – PNWCG SC Tracking commitments, Oct 16, 2012, v32, 1 p)
Task 2. On today’s agenda.
Task 3. Bobbie and Joel Rogauskas will let Renee Beams know the status of the travel cap issue.
Task 4. On today’s agenda.
Task 5. By Nov (not Oct) are the business rules. This will be discussed with the today’s topic on
IMTs.
Task 6. Nancy Hirsch will find some metrics to use for this task.
Leaders intent for TWT
Bobbie Scopa / Joel Rogauskas
(Handout 4 – PNWCG SC Training Working Team Charter working draft, 2.8.2012, 2 pp)
(Handout 5 – PNWCG SC Administration of FCA and PTP Briefing Paper, 1 p)
(Handout 6 – memo from LuAnn Grover to Carl Gossard re; MOU administrator, 1 p)
(Handout 7 – Task Order 0907-04, MOUs with FCAs, 1 p)
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 1
Background: the Training Working Team (TWT) wanted to know from the PNWCG
Representative (Bobbie Scopa) what their role should be for contractor training. The issue:
the work they were doing with the contractor training was taking away their focus from on agency
personnel training.
Our objective for this topic:
 Understand the mission
 Is there an approval for the TWT charter?
There’s a question from the TWT regarding MOU administration. There isn’t an MOU operating
plan that’s approved. The last Task Order regarding MOU administration was in July 2009. There
were four deliverables directed in that Task Order: 1) conduct a listening post from firefighter
contracting associations; 2) revise the MOU operating plan, develop criteria for MOU applications;
3) decide if the proposed monitoring process in the operating plan was valid; 4) the TWT will
reevaluate whether the responsibility for administration of the MOUs should remain with ODF or
if it may enhance our administration of the MOUs to have another entity take on that
responsibility.
What occurred was that MOU administration was taken over by the FS. There were a lot of
personnel transitions and the process for developing items 2 and 3 above pretty much stopped
while waiting for further direction.
For question 3, who was going to do the course monitoring, the issue hasn’t been fully resolved.
The instructor monitoring during this fire season was successful. Through LuAnn Grover & Tony
Largaespada, 30% were able to be monitored. A lot of the monitoring, however, was done by FS
ADs, and several of these ADs will no longer do any monitoring next year.
The unfinished work from the Task Order needs to be completed; the MOU needs to be revised,
ie. criteria for approval; get operating plan approved. Get commitment from all cooperating
agencies. Get the word out to training zone members, so we can be successful.
The first step needed is to get the operating plan completed and approved, so the letter can be sent
out. (Joel Rogauskas)
Many of the issues that the TWT are dealing with are acquisition and contract related. The TWT
should focus on the training and the delivery of the training, not policy issues with contract
administration.
What does it mean in FY13 to administer the MOUs? (item 6 on the draft charter) (David Summer)
Pam: we need to draw a line in the sand. We’ve hit a wall. There is too much to do and cannot
continue without help. If you want good quality contracting resources, we need national help
The following decisions were made:
 Finalize the charter for Bobbie Scopa to sign as Liaision
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 2
 TWT will work with the IBPWT to finalize operating plan. (There will be language in
the operating plan that will clarify item 6 in the TWT charter regarding MOU
administration.)
 TWT and IBPWT will finalize the draft letter. They will send it to Pat Kelly who will
distribute it for 72-hour review.
 TWT will draft a new task order to pick up unfinished business from TO 0907-04,
items 2 and 3.
 Placeholder, after next month’s meeting with the contract associations, to the national
office stating that we will need assistance and support to continue to provide quality
contracting resources.
2013 vision for Fire Operations
Shelby Gales / Nick Giannettino
Safety Session
(Handout 8 – 2013 Fire Operations Safety Session Proposal, 1 p)
These will be 1-day sessions, 6-hours long. The sessions will be in 3 locations a week.
Notices will be sent out through the PNWCG SC mailing list, then the agency reps will forward on
with links to the doodle poll, etc.
Doodle polls will be sent out next week. The message will include leader’s intent statement,
program, speakers, target audiences and feedback due back by and give a date. (Due by Mid
November) (Captain’s Group is the target audience, however inclusive of other groups)
The doodle poll will ask for the preferred location for their area.
Add Eugene to the western Oregon group of cities to be considered.
Consider what we get for responses and locations, then tackle the potential availability of
government facilities.
Shelby and Nick will return to the Nov PNWCG SC meeting to present the results, look at roles
and work on agenda items.
Novembers meeting with
David Summer / Bobbie Scopa
contractor associations
(Handout 9 – draft letter to contractor associations, feedback for fire season 2012, 1 p)
Review of draft letter to contractor associations for a listening forum with PNWCG SC.
There’s agreement to the purpose of the letter.
Change item 1 to read: Reflecting on 2012 what was the most positive. Also add that they can
submit their responses in a letter.
Also invite the TWT and folks involved in contracting.
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 3
David and Bobbie will make the edits, change the date to Nov 13 and send out the letter without a
72-hour review.
There are 8 associations. The meeting will be held at FWS at 911 NE 11th.
Break for lunch at 1130 hrs, reconvened at 1215 hrs.
PNWCG 2013
(Handout 10 – PNWCG SC Chair, Vice Chair, 1999-2012, v7, 1 p)
(Handout 11 – PNWCG Membership list, October 2012, 1 p)
(Handout 12 – PNWCG SC 2013 meeting dates, Oct 10, 2012, v1, 1 p)
(Handout 13 – PNWCG SC AC/WT Liaisons/Chairs, Oct 9, 2012, v 32, 4 pp)
Chair & Vice Chair:
Pam Ensley has been selected as the Chair
Nancy Hirsch has been selected as Vice Chair
Meeting dates:
Change the meeting date in November 2012 to the 13th.
Change the meeting date in December 2012 to the 14th.
SC members to let Pat Kelly know of any date exceptions before the Nov meeting.
Liaisons/Chairs:
Christy Neill was selected to be the PNWCG SC liaison to the GIS WT
PNWCG SC/AC/WT Annual Meeting in Feb 2013 – members agreed to stay with the format, it
seems to work well. The IBPWT to take care of the logistics, Pat Kelly will work with Brenda
Johnson to get a proposal for Nov meeting.
IMT
Implementing evolving Incident Management
Pam Ensley / Joe Shramek
Nationally, the number of IMTs will go down from 50 to 40 teams. All would be at the T1 team
level and these IMTs will be on a national rotation. An implementation phase is in the future.
What can we do in the NW to get involved? We currently have 5 interagency teams in
Washington and 4 interagency teams in Oregon. What will be the future of those teams?
State employees are not in the same situation as federal employees. From one agency’s
perspective, he doesn’t have a problem with 1 or 2 teams to be available for a national rotation.
(Joe Shramek)
Q. What’s the timeline?
A. The national effort will begin in the next month or so. (Bobbie Scopa)
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 4
Bobbie Scopa discussed this with WADNR and Washington Geo Board. The GAC needs to be
prepared to participate. There are several IMTs that have a large number of ADs, how sustainable
is that? How do we participate at the national level to provide IMTs?
We need to find a fresh way to manage the teams. We need to recognize the differences between
the state and federal side.
We need to take some time to brainstorm on this issue.
How do we put together IMTs that will attract the most people to want to be on those teams?
(Pam Ensley)
How many IMTs do we need to contribute to the national effort. (Joe Shramek)
An example of a situation: nationally we’re at PL3 and we have to have “X” amount of teams
available, but regionally we’re at a PL4. In this situation, we wouldn’t have 2 IMTs to contribute
to the national effort. (Bobbie Scopa)
What is it we want to accomplish today? We’re the most de-centralized GAC in the nation
(oversight model). Do we need to move to another model? Not all teams are not created equally.
There are years of training to make “it” happen. This is a leadership issue. We’re challenged as to
what to do with ADs. (David Summer)
We need to take a day and discuss this issue in-depth. One governing body, but allow all the
nuances. With one governing body, there would be a single application process. For leadership
and to deal with response.
This is within our authority. (Pam Ensley)
Looking at 2 things from an IC perspective (Dave LaFave):
1) Centralizing the governance of the teams. This sets a tone to the IMTs about leadership.
2) The issue of ADs. If we want to get away from ADs, let the IC know and the IC will work
to fill his team accordingly.
The process will remain the same until PNWCG SC changes it.
Set up a day to discuss this issue in more depth. Suggest Monday, Nov 5 from 0900 hrs. to 1500
hrs. at the Gifford Pinchot NF supervisor’s office located 10600 NE 51st Circle, Vancouver, WA
98682. Their phone number is 360-891-5000.
Intent is to resolve governance of T1 & T2 Interagency IMTs in the PNW:
1) Number of teams
2) Composition
3) Serving national and regional needs
4) Role of Operations Working Teams
5) Role of Geo Boards
6) Team selections beyond ICs
7) Urgency – when to implement
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 5
8) How to implement
9) Communication plan rollout
2012 Fire Season AAR
+ NWCC & from NWCC’s point of view, season went well, great rapport with MAC reps.
+ Seemed like a “safe” season with the level of activity.
+ Rapid rollout of IMTs and resources worked well including NIFC provided + NW compact.
+ Relationships (per out of the region teams).
+ Quick to go to needed T1 IMTs, where appropriate.
*Pole Creek could use a review.
*Very invasive season (smoke). Everyone in the NW was aware of the critical situation.
*T3 teams have strong ops, but not logistics or finance.
*State mobs highlighted financial implications / authorities.
*Discuss relationships between MAC reps and MAC support group.
*There were a lot of big border fires.
We used a NIMO team on top of a T2 team this season. There were some benefits to this
arrangement. This may be a bridge to getting those T2 teams to T1. (Pam Ensley)
There were a lot of benefits from a planning and PIO standpoint, however not as much from an
operational standpoint (NIMO was the C&G). (Bobbie Scopa)
Something to discuss with the AA: the hesitancy to bring in a higher level team. (Bobbie Scopa)
Hot Topics
Alternatives for inspecting vendors employees records Bobbie Scopa
(Handout 14 – Alternatives for Inspecting Vendor’s Employees Records, Sept 2012, 5 pp)
Trying to find the best level of qualifications that we can use for quality control to make sure folks
are meeting the criteria for water handling and fallers.
Please look the alternatives over in the handout and provide feedback to Bobbie Scopa by Oct 31.
bscopa@blm.gov
If you have any questions, please contact LuAnn Grover.
Line officer training
Agency Administrators
David Summer
To have an AAR with all Forest Supervisors on Monday about line officer development.
Anyone else to thank from PNWCG
David Summer
Make this a future agenda item.
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 6
NWCC organizational chart
Dan O’Brien
(Handout 15 – NWCC Communications Section: Organizing around Interagency Business, 1 p)
Proposed plans for future discussion.
Budget snapshot 2013
Dan O’Brien
FS – status quo
FWS & BIA – down about 20% in fuels, down another 30% in fuels the following year.
ODF – optimistic on the fire side that we may see an increase in capacity in access to statewide
severity resources.
BLM –
Bill Slosson – his agency is in reactionary mode right now.
Oregon Fire Service - Mark Havener, looking at options to increase revenue by removing the cap
on local option levies.
AAR
+ IMT discussion very positive.
Adjourned at 1510 hrs.
Handouts
Handout 1 – PNWCG SC Meeting agenda Oct, 2012, 2 p
Handout 2 – PNWCG SC Sept 19, 2012 meeting notes, 4 pp
Handout 3 – PNWCG SC Tracking commitments, Oct 16, 2012, v32, 1 p
Handout 4 – PNWCG SC Training Working Team Charter working draft, 2.8.2012, 2 pp
Handout 5 – PNWCG SC Administration of FCA and PTP Briefing Paper, 1 p
Handout 6 – memo from LuAnn Grover to Carl Gossard re; MOU administrator, 1 p
Handout 7 – Task Order 0907-04, MOUs with FCAs, 1 p
Handout 8 – 2013 Fire Operations Safety Session Proposal, 1 p
Handout 9 – draft letter to contractor associations, feedback for fire season 2012, 1 p
Handout 10 – PNWCG SC Chair, Vice Chair, 1999-2012, v7, 1 p
Handout 11 – PNWCG Membership list, October 2012, 1 p
Handout 12 – PNWCG SC 2013 meeting dates, Oct 10, 2012, v1, 1 p
Handout 13 – PNWCG SC AC/WT Liaisons/Chairs, Oct 9, 2012, v 32, 4 pp
Handout 14 – Alternatives for Inspecting Vendor’s Employees Records, Sept 2012, 5 pp
Handout 15 – NWCC Communications Section: Organizing around Interagency Business, 1 p
10.17.2012 PNWCG SC Meeting, pg 7