MEETING MINUTES
PNWGC AVIATION WORKING TEAM
JANUARY 20, 2004
Attendees:
Jon Rollens – USFS, Dave Doan – WADNR, Ted Stevens – BIA, Jim Ziobro – ODF,
Steve Smith – NBC, Clay Hillin – BLM, Suzie Bates – NPS, Eric Shilling – USFS, Don
Bell - USFS
Suzie Bates was nominated to be the vice chair for next year.
She will check with her office before she commits.
John Rollens presented the agenda and the minutes from the October meeting.
Review of October minutes:
Response plan – Bill Bulger is heading the group, this is still in progress.
The Master Agreement is still being worked on – not out yet. The remaining issues are
not related to aviation.
Clay Hillin has been working with the folks in Boise on air to ground frequencies
between regions.
The Helicopter Manager workshop in Eugene will be the only one this year (April 19,
2004) due to budget issues.
If it looks like there’s enough students to do another one, let John Rollens know and he
would try to find the funds for another one. Jim Ziobro said they might be able to help as
well if there is enough demand. Jim said they could also provide some people.
Suzie Bates suggested we send out an announcement to try to get a head count.
Jon Rollens asked about integrating a helicopter manager workshop into ACE.
Apparently, it looks like that won’t happen real soon.
Steve Smith said that about $7k to $10k needs to be invested in the “PIG” (helicopter
emergency escape training device) to get it back in good working condition. It has been
damaged from repeated shipping.
Suzie Bates will talk to the training folks about the need for helicopter manager training
Splash fueling:
Jim Ziobro’s agency will incorporate the language from the IHOG and it will be allowed.
Jon Rollens presented the 2003 accomplishments:
The Air Assets spreadsheet was created. It needs to be updated for this year.
Jon will email the form that authorizes one helicopter manager to manage two helicopters
to the group. This worked well for short transition periods. This is for type one and two
helicopters only. Certain mission types are excluded in the letter. The confusion on this
issue will be resolved by the next meeting.
The charter has been reworked and approved by the steering committee.
A new meeting date formula was worked out.
The Fire Traffic Area has been accepted.
The policy matrix needs to be updated.
Still have the draft for the STAT teams. Jon felt there wasn’t really a need.
Suzie Bates said that she needs the STAT Teams. She has a very large geographic area to
manage, and will need assistance pretty much any time incidents run longer than 5 days.
Jon offered assistance to Suzie on this issue and suggested that regular conference calls
continue. There are a lot of new players and this fact adds to this issue.
Jon mentioned that he was impressed with the DNR folks that he dealt with this past
season.
ATGS/ASM Update – Clay Hillin
Funding for 4 units is online for 2005.
Doug Kastner (RAG) is representing the BLM for ATGS.
Clay is expecting to advertise for the Program Manager in April to have in place by Oct
1st.
He is working with Chris Hice to have a GS-9 developmental position to staff the ATGS
as a regional asset.
Clay expects the vale aircraft will go away.
They are planning to put one of the four ATGS/ASM units in baker city.
Clay asked about the performance criteria. Jon said that there is enough opposition within
the ranks to make this a battle. This is supposed to be resolved in early February but Jon
is not optimistic that it will happen then.
Two aircraft (Redmond and Wenatchee) will be funded out of the RAG budget?
The FS is implementing the ASM program. The problem is that there is no funding for it.
Ron Vail is the representative for this geographic area.
Each region committed to training one module. The problem is finding enough ATGSs.
If we can get an ATGS program manager in place for this region, that will solve a big
part of the problem.
Jim Ziobro will be putting on an ATGS course the week of April 6 or 13 and may have
some room for additional people.
Jon suggested that McLellan put on national training with their simulators.
Clay Hillin said that the BLM will have 4 modules this year.
Jim Ziobro said that an ASM will come down from Alaska to Medford again this year.
Helitanker Update
They are still working getting some exclusive use helicopters.
Fixed tanks vs. buckets is an issue for the helitanker contracts. Jon Rollens said there still
is a place for Type 1 helicopters with buckets. There may be a Type 1 helicopter contract
let and we may host it in this geographic area.
End of old business
Budget Discussion:
Jon Rollens – The budget is down 5 to 6 million.
Clay Hillin – The Burns District will only have 5 helitack crews (normally 9).
Jon Rollens - The budget will likely be a mess, given the election year, and we may not
get the budget until February.
Suzie Bates – Two Parks requested dedicated SAR units (Rainier and Yosemite).
They will be going after aircraft with hoists for SAR.
The NPS is also having problems with their budgets.
Jim Ziobro – Thinks ODF’s budget is ok, but the tax initiative will have an effect.
As far as aviation, it looks pretty good.
ODF is planning to use the Alaska tankers again this year. The request was sent in the
beginning December and asked for a response by end of January. There are political
issues with this but they don’t involve Region 6.
The land owners are talking about maybe funding a second airtanker.
Ted Stevens – Basically will have the same thing this year and most will go on severity
as needed. Colville and Warm Springs will have exclusive use, and the rest of aviation
will be CWN.
Dave Doan –Washing State DNR is in pretty good shape.
They flew 5 helicopters (normally 3) for a total of approximately 900 hours this last year.
They took delivery of their first Cobra Helicopter last month. The pilots are impressed
with the aircraft. They are going back next week to pick up the second one, and planning
to have 5 Cobras this year. They will use them for air attack and bucket work using a 324
gallon bucket which they can keep in the ammo bay.
The State of Montana is thinking about getting Cobras as well.
End Product Contracts:
Jon Rollens handed out a draft of proposed changes to the 5700 manual for the FS.
The whole idea was to mimic what DOI does.
Suzie Bates had a question about the terminology that needs to be resolved. What does
“forest service contracting” mean (local or ?).
Jon Rollens – Light fixed wing is a problem. They are trying to come up with some boiler
plate requirements for those aircraft.
Steve Smith thinks the document is very close.
Jon Rollens – There is resistance in the FS culture to “step back” from the end product
contract projects. It’s an all or nothing type deal.
This is wrapped up in a whole bunch of revisions to the 5700. The revisions are due the
second week in Feb.
Nomex by Aviation Fuelers:
Per IHOG, the fuelers are NOT supposed to be wearing Nomex due to concerns about
static electricity. Dave Doan had someone look into the validity of this. Supposedly, the
newer Nomex (3A) is designed to reduce static electricity.
Washington DNR wants to have fuelers use the new Nomex as they believe it offers more
protection than cotton.
Jon suggested that MTDC look into this and if this is true that the new Nomex is anti
static, then we should change the IHOG.
Jon will forward the issue to George Jackson at MTDC.
The IHOG is up for revision in 2005.
Steve will send it through Bob Galloway in DOI as well.
Individual Agency Reports:
Clay Hillin - An Aviation Awareness session will be held on April 12 at the Hood River
Inn for Air Ops Branch directors, Dispatchers, ATGS, and Airspace folks.
Clay will be sending out an email and is looking for some firm numbers soon.
Jon Rollens - Region 6 is really lean on Rappel Spotters to the point that they may have
to stand down one crew. This is not a dollar issue; there just aren’t trained people
available.
Clay Hillin has been trying to spur the frequency group into action on the proposal for
new frequency allocations in the PNW. Nothing has been done since June of last year.
There has been a request for 12 air-to-ground frequencies for the PNW. We will have
some “regional” frequencies with a primary and secondary for each zone. Scott Fisher is
looking at the zones for air-to-air frequencies as well.
The National Office opinion on this is that our users don’t know how to use the radios.
Clay will send out a copy of the latest frequency boundaries.
Jon Rollens – This is an issue where you’re never going to make everyone happy.
Jon Rollens is looking for an assistant HOS. There is an outreach out now.
Jon is trying to pick up a SCEP in RDM by March 1st at the latest.
Steve Dickenson is now at NWCC.
Jon Rollens will do an aviation review on the Siskyou next week, and may be looking for
a full time UAO.
Pat Norbury was selected for the NAOO position in Boise.
National Guard Updates:
Jim Ziobro suggested that we invite a member of the Guard to one of the meetings.
Suzie Bates – It would be nice to have a briefing on the Western States issue.
Aviation Security Assessment:
Eric Shilling has been tasked with an audit of the facilities in the geographic area.
Jon talked about the security plan that is laid out by alert status color.
He will send out a copy by email.
Canadian Retardant:
Dave Spliethof is looking into what the issues are with using Canadian Retardant.
Dave Doan would like the group to look at the use of foam as well. They need to know
before the aircraft are ordered whether or not foam can be used.
Load Calc Form:
There should be a new load calc form in the warehouses with a new line for jettisoned
loads. The training will be done at the helicopter manager course and the Aviation
Awareness class. Need to get this out to the vendors and pilots ASAP.
Physical fitness standards:
Some Park Service employees are arriving on site and being told that they are not
qualified due to a difference in standards.
Clay Hillin – There was a misprint which has been corrected that will straighten most of
this out.
Somehow the update is not making it to the field.
Leadplane Update:
The RFP is on the street, and has probably closed today.
An evaluation team has been put together to evaluate the proposals. Concerns have been
voiced that there are no leadplane pilots on the team.
Jon Rollens is optimistic that we will get airplanes but there might be a problem with
protests by the vendors.
Automated Flight Following:
Jon Rollens - We are looking at trying to implement it as a policy.
A satellite based system has been selected.
This will be available as an option as the aircraft get equipped.
Jim Ziobro – The pilots still need to notify dispatch that they are in the area so they can
be made aware of other traffic in the area.
Steve Smith – There is a proposal to change “Areas” to “Regions” within Aviation
Management (formerly OAS).
Next Meeting:
Scheduled for May 4th, 2004