NRCG Meeting Notes
April 11-13, 2007
Missoula, MT
Attendees:
Ted Mead, Pamela Okon, Tom Corbin, Marianne Baumberger, Len Dems, Steve
Zachry, Jim Kelton, Bret Waters, Phil Gill, Robert Laplant, Dave Overcast, Jim
Reuter, Dan Cassidy, Cory Winnie, David Geyer. Brian Shiplett.
(Afternoon - George Weldon, Tim Murphy, Chuck Stanich, Cathy Scofield)
Committee Report
Business Report – Pam Okon
Last meeting 2/4. Best value review report, tasked with 1 issue “G” balance with
contractors and dealing with re-supply of government equipment to contractors.
Replacement of minor supplies, burned over hoses, etc. Recommended NRCG
authorized a person to supply contractor when at the best interest of the
government. Add more clarity to chap 30 make it easier for the team to
understand what can and cannot be supplied. This was a big issue for the
contractors. All Ops Chiefs need to know this. Let the contractors know this
also. Also needs to be an even swap, Continue to use these hoses during the
next operational shift – Due to regulations we can only give clarification. At last
resort if they left equipment on the fire they can get a re-supply order at the next
incident and at the end of the year they will have documentation to replace. Go
to home unit where they were signed up to get the replacement. Make clear to
the contractor how they could re-supply themselves.
Weed washer standard guidelines, faller module, Best Value solicitation for this
year. We have MOUs for all equipment inspections, 3 confirmed, and 2 in the
process of finishing papers. Helena, Big Fork, and contractor associations
These three contractors will be doing all equipment and training record
verifications. They will service the whole geographic area. They all submitted a
business plan, will be in every dispatch zone. 3 days in each area. How is the
scheduling going to happen – submit schedule through Kevin Erickson,
attempting to set up a federal person be on site, to confirm everything is good to
go. Tim will be contacting the sites.
Gov to Gov rates – Brett involved. Set new rated for local government.
Discussed how best to develop a formula - use the local government rate for all.
ND looking at the type V rate. How do they compare to best value, lower.
Different hiring mechanism for local government. Each State uses some form of
their language, will have rental agreement for local government.
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Equipment - Jim Reuter
Sponsored equipment workshop Missoula – 90 attended. Inspect resources
adequate based on previous need. 500 folks through the process and qualified.
Availability always an issue. Getting inspection when they were on assignment
out of regain is an issue. Better to be someone local, not have the unit return
home. Be sure inspection is adequate and radios meet qualification, it is in the
contract now. If they show up without the software to clone the radios they are at
fault. Recommend basic radio operation in the engine boss training, include it in
their task book and in Fire Fighter I and Engine Boss training. Need familiarity
for continued use. Felt there was no need for more training. Fire equipment
working team NWCG on all new typing changes, Kevin Erickson has become a
Region 1 rep on that committee. Prepared a draft on engine typing and
submitted issues, Kevin’s involvement will help. One size fits all hard. BV
contract equipment committee fully backs this, will have agency reps at each
one. Concern from States that these minimum standards still may be too high for
a starting nationally. Recommend we not start so high. Standards set in
previous contracts, hold where they were. Standards we have are adequate.
Native American Crews - Robert Laplant
Issues internally with drug testing drafted a letter but the issue was resolved
before it was done. Planned rewrite NAC plan, coordinate with dispatch centers
to read the NAC plan. A lot of issues that come up could be solved reading the
NAC Plan. There is demand for more Type 2 IA crews. Change crew structure
by having an assistant crew boss would help, needs more research. Where we
having a decline in crew members? Down to 50 crews for interagency support
goal. Culture shift fire fight not what it used to be, drug test, finding more. The
good workers are finding steady work and there are more jobs on the
reservation. Also contractors are luring them away. Decline urban crews 3 –
Missoula has a strong crew, Great Falls has fallen off. Look for a FS
replacement for Lee Clark on the committee. Allen Rowley wants someone on in
Great Falls. NAC plan once complete posted on web page, Tracey will post on
the web. A lot of questions could be answered if the plan were read, really need
to get it out to everyone. Have they looked at making it more attractive?
Structure the crew and elevate crew boss to the next rate and bring up other
rates, make it more prestigious. What about smaller transportation modules –
mob guide transportation not an issue it is hard. Significant investment right up
front.
Prevention - Marianne Baumberger
Work on conference in May she has a flyer, re-energize the climate.
Concentration on education and prevention. Cathy Scofield new job duties will
not coordinate prevention teams and restrictions and closures. Mike Danenberg
will be replacement for Restriction and Closures. Prevention teams Northern
Rockies team is up right now, Mike will take on some of those duties also. There
is a shortfall of team leaders. Sandy Grothe from the IPNF is a trainee. Improve
coordination with restrictions and closures. Working on getting the messages
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out. Reach out to PAO folks and LEI folks. Educate sheriff deputies. New
wording for Stage I list areas open for campfires. There is a bill in the Legislature
now to clarify authority into statute, give county commissioners same restriction
so we all line up. Session ends in two weeks, Ted Mead will keep every one
attune.
North Dakota Report - David Geyer
Last year – SPF ground had 1,000 fires reported. No fed numbers but guessed
400-500 fires. Broke through 65,000 ac burned 50 large fires, compared to
10,000. First year of burn bans implemented – how will they work. Worked with
other agencies county emergency managers, put together and it worked well.
Will use more coordination with emergency services this year. Lot of severity in
ND, aviation along the borders.
Have a National Weather Service rep, from Pocatello, working toward changing
zones slowly. Get NFDRS system up and running the rangeland fire index
system currently used, does not give enough info. Want to get the weather
stations up and running across the state, one in each zone. Make sure people
know how to calibrate stations when needed. SW FS working on county
assistance team in three counties. The will not go outside their area. Build
statewide T3 org, put everyone into one area for training. National Guard was
instrumental in radio programming. Fire council discussed interagency type hand
crew. Will start to support one maybe coming up the chain for support. Will
support equipment to bolster the numbers. Getting more equipment--portable
radio cache, 50 person cache, and strike team ready to go.
Pointing to an above average fire season. Predictions are worse. ND dispatch
moved to Bismarck, location where FWS offices. Having an open house 5/16 at
2 pm. Will make a huge improvement in ND since it is a major hub of
transportation.
Easter Montana - Dave Overcast
Convened east zone partners. Looking for common ground with County
Commissioners and county clerks, all gaining information and understanding.
50 crews Native Amer. Ramping up crews with advertisements, etc. Attempting
landscape fuels planning. How to manage for a fuel break. Trespass fires and
how to manage those. Helicopters updates, look forward to using them. Miles
City reprogram radio frequencies, National Guard trailer a good idea, they had
some program they ran them through and changed the frequencies. Had a Thirty
Mile liability presentation. Put together a type 3 team with more consistency.
Going out to the folks that are not usually in fire. Smoke jumpers ordered for
overhead quals, looking for a balance. Hot into training, training as many as they
can. Ramped up IC’s meeting 3-4-5 IC’s scheduled information sharing, zone
wide. Not sure when but in May or first part of June will get out to partners.
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Talking to the FWS about sharing an AFMO position. Good concept. Pursuing
service first with other agencies.
BLM new draft severity policy will cause them to manage fire differently. Put
together a draft charter for the zone, efficiently work with partners, know the
values at risk, how it looks to the tax payer, and management to the right value.
South Central - Marianne Baumberger
Good attendance and participation of partners. Put together a prevention coop,
media blitz for Montana Fire Awareness in May. Did an AAR local government
liaison with IA team. Engine academy June 8-10 safety in urban interface. Non
traditional fire resources, until a T3 team comes in. Working better every season.
Derby fire had an independent cost review by OMB, Brookings Institute, looking
at the Gallatin strategy, nothing to report yet. Working well with partners. Went
into someone’s home for a potluck and had a very good discussion with the
neighbors, in Trail Creek neighborhood. Ag Extension has money to do some
work, projects go through RC&D.
Central Montana Zone - Rita Chandler
Their Zone strength is at the Division level. Helena, Great Falls and Dillon. They
too are developing a charter to tie the divisions together. Finalize that and post it
on the web. Restriction coordinator is Kim Merganthal. Challenges within the
zone: FMO L&C vacant and hope to have it filled by fire season, urban crew on
Helena did not exist last year. Helena Alliance will not exist this year, but the
Great Falls one will.
Seasonal crew staffing? Feds will be the same as later year, state will be the
same, down with NAC in Great Falls. Dispatch center working to add positions in
Great Falls.
SW Zone - Steve Zachry
Lolo filled new Aviation officer with Maggie McDonald she will start end of May.
BRT FMO job to be advertised and filled before Jack leaves in June. Prevention
group working well together, zone operating plan will help with efficient and less
duplication. Roughly 500 fires and 50% of those are human caused.
Restrictions and Closures, Steve is the Coordinator. They have split the Bob
Marshall complex into two areas. Flathead NF will take the lead. Restrictions
and Closure panel is studying steps of when and how to come out of restrictions.
Fire Use in the Great Burn Wilderness is coming on, will be unmanned to stage
3.
Should be SOP for each zone on teams. Need consistency on the zones. NW
felt they could have done a better job and started earlier. NRCG provide some
clarity direction or expectation of zone boards. Everyone knows how it will play
out and there is always engagement. Zones looking at team evaluations.
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T3 org working something in this zone, can't put other standard T3 with the
commitment to the T1 and T2 team
Staffing similar to last year. Start of fire season we will have a permanent seat
base for planes.
NW Montana - Dan Cassidy
Allen Chrisman will start as zone rep this fall for a two year segment. May 4
Zone meeting. Continuing T3 effort. Kootenai had standard teams. GNP,
Flathead and DNRC put together a zone team and will include county folks. We
are also reaching out to water resources at DNRC. Will pursue zone severity
requests. Take it one step further on how to deploy those assets. Coordination
on how to deploy.
New AFMO Tally Lake, staffing Flathead 8 module, 5 engine, 3 IA ex user
helicopter full 10 helitac module, Plan to burn 1000-2000 acre Hungry Horse this
year.
Kootenai snow pack 91% -60% in some drainages. 13 engines, 1 IE 1 T3
helicopter coming on in mid June. Will be doing 5,500 acres WUI and 1,800 nonWUI.
Frank Waterman is the new center manager at Kootenai Dispatch.
All locations are interviewing for seasonals. Flathead County has an all hazard
team. Seat base at Plains an interagency project. Going by June. Eng
academy Gorman near Marian.
T3 org challenges? Lack of people, Thirty Mile not an issue. Burned a lot of
people out. Support at the units went to Albuquerque. Also a commitment issue.
Trainings to get them to the level to have them on the teams. Money and
training. T3 extended attack. Comfort level of getting out of area. Change the
focus to extended attack, could build something into the IA.
Complexing at the T3 level.
Northern Idaho - Brian Shiplett.
Grangeville dispatch center opened, centralized interagency, central attack.
Excellent year. Full staffing is a problem. IPNF had 3 T3 orgs. Moved the south
zone team to help Clearwater, more than once and were successful. Central
zone team stuck to CDA area and North Zone stuck to their zone. Did use them
on less than full suppression action on outside organization on Home Peaks and
Hughes 32, were up there 28 days. Feedback from team - they managed by
using internal rotation. New SEAT in Grangeville.
Agency Round Robin
Ted Mead State of Montana.
Efforts with the State Legislature bills have gone well. Setting policy in statute
and cleaning up language. Track firefighter liability indemnity for fire fighters
state or local government, changed criminal scope of work, provide criminal
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defense coverage. Not signed yet. Budget – good shape. State of MT has a $1
billion surplus. Fire program status quo to help agency dispatch center $5-7000
per center for Billings, Miles City and Lewistown, $10-15,000 for Bigfork,
Missoula, Helena, and Kalispell. Retain development $ to support 15 new
engines. T6 engines on new chassis, to county partners in eastern MT. Staffing
as it was last year with a few openings. Making push to purchase all 5 Hueys.
What it will take to get title to those. FS, FSA, Dept of Defense, State of MT, and
Maine. Congressional offices involved. Priority Hueys first. Maintenance of
those done last season, upgrade air worthiness . Allen Edmunds and aviation
Eddie Morris will meet with chief pilot in Helena and inspect pilot records and
aircraft to see if they are back to where they were. Component requirements
high skid gear, 3 of the Hueys will have high skid gear and shoulder harness,
auto flight following. Info to folks as soon as finalized. Reinvigorate aviation
committee under NRCG.
New technology 2 way radio P25 standard and trunking systems, directed all
agencies go to P25 digital trunked radio systems. They have built a transition
plan over the next 4 years to move the system, was not approved in Legislative
process. Regrouping to see if they will have a transition. L&C County has gone
to trunked digital system. Interoperability project directors established in MT,
Central Mt has a system in place, next area to go (state, fed. LEI) northern tier
building that system out right now. Divergence in technology, teams need to
work quickly. As a board do we need to put this higher on the list? Need to say
we are concerned, and as of now we do not have a system worked out for
working with the trunk system. The problem is that the Counties across the west
are getting $$ to put in the P25 Trunk system. How to live with this? Lots of
federal push to go to trunk system, especially DOI. Could allow patches to work
with trunk systems but long ways from just using trunk systems. LEI needs
encrypted radio systems.
Appreciate the DNRC working with the other agencies in their rules and regs.
Use of the helicopters will be needed this season. Task for Aviation Committee
to tackle? Ted did not have any off the top of his head. Allen working on the
committee up and functioning, other states are working on the state and federal
issues. Staffing issue--do not have helicopter mangers and fuel truck drivers,
need to be utilizing together. Each board member needs to make sure the
aviation committee is active. Look at some tasks come up with specifics.
Inspections done by AMD and Feds maintenance get the same letter from one
letter for the two agency letters. Mutually use of equipment.
Len Dems
Intermountain West NPS
Aviation BLM and Colorado share aviation officer J Kent Hamilton. Intermittent
regular Park service. Budget looking good. Not sure where projected reductions
are.
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Jim Kelton
FWP
Funding outlook looking DOI driven suppression costs. R FA going away.
Taking away from preparedness. Realign to have as many in field as possible
and get to unmet needs. Moving FTE from east to west. Need District FMOs for
the Lee Metcalf. Bridger Teton in UT and Green River in WY. Filling Rx fuels
specialist at Benton Lake Refuge. Serves Western MT and go east to help CMR.
Fuels budget is review by GAO. They are upset because may not be addressing
highest priority projects first. Severity funding much tighter. Tied to the
suppression account, more accountability of what they spent. Better estimates
for where to use these folks.
Ted heard certain $ SPF would be granted. SFA looking at more competitive
granting, have the state have a detailed plan where they are doing the work and
why. Critical landscape analysis based on Community and fire regimes .
Worried because some of that SFA money is used for base funding. Look at
support $ and talk amongst ourselves, difficult with fire use modules hard to
move around. Fewer dollars in the support funds. As targets remain what if we
can not show up and get the work done it will be hard.
George gave his PowerPoint of AMR.
Group like the idea and recognized that this is business as usual with a new
name. Need a communication plan to present to the agency administrators and
the public. Emphasize what AMR is NOT, it is not a “let it burn” strategy.
Examples of where this might be used would be helpful, maps or a photo would
be good. Need to discuss at the Executive Session and set up timeframes and
common terminology between the agencies. The NRCG committee agrees with
it. There have been many examples of this since 2000, this is not a new
concept. For the State of Montana all private land has high priority and the same
goes for the BIA and Tribal lands.
NRCG come up with an agreement for what AMR is, know our decision space
and agree upon that. Need a good communication plan
Tim Murphy
Best Value Contracts
Passed out National Solicitation Plan for Competitive EERAs. FS Plan.
5/30 Tim will be meeting with SAC committee and staff it out and talk about 2009.
Tentative solicitation timeline handed out. Hope to have 3 year bus solicitation,
potable water and water handling solicitation. DNRC will be yearly. Next
Monday start inspections 4/16 to 5/25 water handling equipment. Government
inspectors cost ¼ million dollars, this year working with OGC, Kevin and Tim
crafted a MOU with no cost to government, 5 associations or companies signed
off on. 3 signature have Tom's signature and 2 to come. Starting next Monday.
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MOU holders provide inspection of equipment and verification of people’s
qualifications simultaneously. Provide a schedule to Tim. And must do the
whole GA. 1-2 government people at each inspection site. Meeting with all
agencies of the inspection sites over the next six weeks. Right now looking
good. Contractors have been told this has been coming for two years. They pay
for the inspections. They pick which MOU holder they want to use. Only water
handling equipment this year. Help coming from all agencies to help with the
inspections. Rumor is $200-400 for each vehicle. Looks like we have a third
more equipment and more companies than last year. The audit occurs as the
government people are at the inspections and normal inspections at close out.
There are 39 MOUs in place with training companies doing pack tests, red cards
and task books companies. Water handling 332 including potable water could
be up to 500 now, but inspections will weed some of those out.
The last two years NRCG did a congressional briefing in MT. Recommendation
– have a staffer meeting in MT for congressional and governor office. DNRC
PAO in the neighborhood of May 15. Mt has dates nailed down with Fire season
2007 welcome that info to be part of that. Preference it be a NRCG presentation
one scheduled Missoula and one in Helena. Missoula 4/19 at 1030 –
government briefing May 31 Helena at 0900. Provide a NRCG perspective. Tim
available 4/19 but not 5/31.
Last years contract be careful with contractors on severity. Especially fallers,
clarifying language in new solicitation. Wording on work rest with letter from IC
get the OK to work longer.
Cathy Scofield
Protection Exchange
Looked at what Idaho did with exchange protection and how it was established.
Established in Phases 1,2,3 and conclusion. Why did they not look at Fire
complexity? It was not a factor for Idaho. What does Mt think will be a value to
us? -+ 20,000 value acres. Took about 2 years to go through the process. GIS
support was the hardest to come by. Contractor GIS is the best way to go.
Idaho will review every 5 years.
There have been a lot of changes, look at where we are today and where do we
want to be in the future.
Next step for MT Fire Directors
Assumptions, objectives, critical timelines, limitations, lead/liaison, agency
contacts.
Task Group
FWS, BLM, FS and State look at this. Assessed protected lands, trust lands, non
forested lands private owners signed up. BIA trust lands outside the boundary of
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reservations No protection provided, would like to know if anything jumps out
about trust lands. Mutual aid approach. Counties are protecting.
Other Fed lands? Army Corp of eng - if no agency steps up DNRC bills them or
expect them to enter into a cost agreement.
Figure out who is protecting which land and how – cost share, etc. Do we have
every acre of land protected? Look at what is currently offset establish whether it
equitable or not. Consider other agencies not part of the 6-party agreement if a
rural fire dept surrounds a parcel of fed land it has to protect it. There are some
private lands in Glacier Park. Monuments we have and how protection is
provided.
Propose take up for next phase as discussion part of NRCG Exec board how to
proceed.
IMT Futuring (Chuck Stanich)—This is a subgroup of the Operations Committee.
At the IMT meetings the functional breakouts made a commitment to mentor their
replacement. We need to make sure we are matching people up to gain
historical knowledge from their mentor before all those years of knowledge leave
for good. Chuck passed out a handout outlining the options. The IMTs have
committed to configuring to whatever the assignment calls for. This is a process
we would start moving toward over the next 5-6 years. Suggestion was made to
also put priority on Type 3 team members. Type 1 and Type 2 IMTs members
are committed to an individual supporting a Type 3 incident when necessary.
Moving to one standard Type 1 team and one short Type 1 team might allow us
to stand up an additional Type 2 team.
This group will also put together some comments to submit to the national rewrite of S-520 and recommend it be combined with S-580.
This group would also like the NRCG to spend more time at the IMT meetings
next year.
Ops Committee (Bob Lippincott)—see attachment. Jim Nichols will replace Rick
Kusicko as IC from N ID next year. The agreement with the Albuquerque Service
Center for support to our IMTs has been put on hold until their new director is
named. The Fire Use subcommittee has been meeting regularly and they are
sponsoring a Fire Use Workshop at Lubrecht Forest in May.
N ID zone report—included with Ops committee handout.
Critical Incident Stress Management (CISM) Peer Support Group (Jan Everett)—
The HRSPs are the liaison between the IMT and the CISM team. Jan outlined
her plan for bringing together a Peer Support Group Team and how they would
be trained. Jan introduced Debby Wivholm who manages the Critical Incident
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Stress Program for the Forest Service. Debby explained how CISM works and
how we’ve used it in the past thru the Employee Assistance Program and that it’s
available to all agencies participating in fire management. If you have an
individual interested in participating on the Peer Support Group please get the
name to Jan by April 27.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
• Tracey will send out a reminder to committee chairs to send updates to their
page on the NRCG website.
• Geographic Area Drawdown Plan—would like to work with Ops committee to
aggregate what the zones have done and build upon that to encompass the
entire GA so that movement can take place from zones that have already
reached drawdown. We need to first come up with sideboards for the plan.
We could add some guidance or look at the language in the strategic plan.
• Input to the Strategic Plan needs to be to Bob by the end of next week.
• Filling Smoke Management Coordinator position—George proposes we fill
that position with someone who has FBAN/LTAN type skills. Forest Service
will fly an outreach for this position.
• Letter to local agency administrators—needs to go to county commissioners,
MACO, city gov’ts and state gov’t with contact person for each state. Tom
will resend draft letter to BOD members.
• IMT3 Organizational Review—Brian will send info on the Type 3 workshop
they put on each year. Tom will tweak the response to include this idea.
Tracey will build a Type 3 organization tool kit page on the NRCG website.
Everyone should send resources they have to Tracey to post on the page.
We need to identify the zones that don’t currently have capability to field a
type 3 organization and contact those zones directly to encourage them to
build their capability. Post the document produced by the Ops committee on
the website.
• Team Awards—protocols should be put in the Team plans.
• Increase participation by zones in IMT selections—this should also go into
the team plans. Need SOPs for zone participation in IMT management and
zone board charters.
• We would like to have a call with the zone board reps prior to fire season to
go over expectations and the MAC operating handbook.
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• Operations Committee Working Group IMT proposal—Board members agree
with the preferred option and will review with their agency administrators.
We will ask for a start on a strategy for the next 1-2 years. We also need to
brainstorm any items that might be missed. All this needs to be completed
by our fall meeting.
• AMR White Paper—would like to make an executive summary explaining
what AMR is and isn’t and a few paragraphs on why and how we’re doing it,
then have appendices for suggested formats of long-term plans.
• AFD Financial Plan—the group working on this will meet again in May. Get
your feedback to Bob by May 13.
• NRCG Mobilization of Local Gov’t Resources—new guide was passed out.
Review and get edits to Ted by the end of April.
• DNRC is working on an MOU with the MT Sheriff’s and Peace Officer’s
Association to allow ordering of extra deputies for fire activities. Federal
agencies would have the opportunity to use it as well.
• Pre-season briefing for the MT Governor—set up for May 31 at 0900 at the
Governor’s office. We will invite the congressional offices as well. Ted will
talk about conditions and resources. Murphy will talk about best value
contracting. Mary Sexton would like a briefing on AMR also. Tom, Phil and
George can go.
• DNRC will brief Senator Baucus on April 19th at 1100 at the DNRC office.
• We would like to re-invigorate the NRCG Aviation committee and develop
some tasks for them. A big one is clarifying policy issues, making sure
everything is in place to utilize each other’s aircraft. Identify key shortage
positions and recruit for those. Identify impacts of aviation competitive
sourcing. NRCG (Jim Kelton) will write a letter to the aviation committee
expressing clear expectations of the committee.
• Forest Service Doctrine—the need for this arose from the recent tragedies
and the abatement items that have accumulated from these that are
overwhelming line officers and fire managers. It will be used to realign
policies and procedures to do what make sense on the ground. Please
review and let George know if anything contained in it conflicts with other
NRCG agencies’ policies or operating procedures.
• Severity Funding is greatly reduced for several of the DOI agencies and the
Forest Service, which emphasizes the need for interagency sharing and
cooperation. If MAC group is activated, we can get the zones on our calls to
report on coordination of severity requests.
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• MT Protection Exchange—DNRC will produce a map of the current
exchange and we will see what we have on file for documentation of the
current exchange. George offers Cathy Scofield to be the temporary team
leader to determine how to proceed and if we need to hire a contractor.
DNRC will have John Monzie and Lowell Whitney participate. BLM will have
Mike Dannenberg; Rich Sterry from FWS. We would like to have them meet
before our next conference call (May 15) and report at that call. A map,
tabular acreage roll up, and copies of agreements is the first step. Also
research any local protection agreements that may exist, as well as land
exchanges and acquisitions.
• Next meeting is Nov. 5 starting at 1300 and continuing thru most of the day
Wed. in Missoula.
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