Northern Rockies Coordinating Group Meeting Notes
November 18-19, 2009
Present: Len Dems, Tom Corbin, Phil Gill, Jim Kelton, Patti Koppenol, Tracey Nimlos, Cathy
Scofield, Ken Schmid, Cory Winnie, Kit Kemsley, Jim Reuter, David Geyer, Steve Knecht, Bob
Gilman, Mike McMeekin, Ted Mead, Dave Hall, David Martin, Paul Fieldhouse, Dave Soleim,
Greg Archie, Brett Waters, Rick Siedltz, Tim Murphy, Robert LaPlant, Biddy Simet.
Zone Reports:
ND Zone: Little fire activity, lots of flood activity. 52 of 53 counties impacted.
EMT Zone: Had near average number of starts, but below average acres burned. ERRA for
heavy equipment didn’t get done. Had a need and had to make it happen themselves.
Central MT Zone: Jim Harrington new zone rep. Zone is made up of 3 divisions which operate
independently. Hoping new zone rep will bring divisions together. Fire activity occurred in July
and September. Had a couple of teams and a couple of fires that were managed for resource
objectives. Growing pains with managing fires for multiple objectives and how partners are
going to interact.
South Central MT Zone: Little fire activity. A couple of T3 fires - NPS and Bridger Bowl, went
well. Worked on CWPPs, grants, and prescribed fire projects. FS used Sweet Grass Co. on
prescribed fire projects. Lots of training going on within zone. Meagher Co. had 3 go through
CIMC training.
SW MT Zone: Little fire activity. CS&KT and MDNRC had T3 fires. Trying to stand up a T3
zone team. Jumpers will become part of that team. Engine typing has become an issue.
MDNRC wants to type engines more than one way. Current practice is to type them one way.
NW MT Zone: Number of starts @ average, acres below average. Kootenai and Flathead NFs
had 2 long duration fires. Both forests have ARRA (Economic Recovery) funds for fuels
projects. Kootenai still working with EPA on Rainy Creek, have put in air monitors to look at
asbestos concerns. NIMO assisted in writing an issue paper. Kootenai NF implemented a
Rappel program that includes about 2O. Kalispell airtanker base closed this year.
ID Zone: Not present.
Bark Beetle – CO has a lot going on. Kelton asked what is going on elsewhere. In MT, efforts
have included public education. Public is aware of the change occurring. Local efforts include
working on educating homeowners on what they can do around their house with their trees, etc.
and is on the Governors radar screen. Gov. Office has a community outreach group to keep
public informed as to what is going on and what is being done to address a potential disaster.
Interagency website has been established for home and landowners to provide source of
information about beetles and consultation services that are available.
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Zone Incident Prioritization Process how did it work?: Didn’t have a lot of opportunities.
Looking at having zone level MAC training in 3 locations. Priority matrix would be part of
training.
Input for Agency Administrator Workshops (Zones): provide opportunity at venues they are
already going to. Take it locally. Have a geographic/statewide perspective presented at these
meetings. See the value for having line officers meeting together. Need to target what they need
to know and the level that is relevant them (content).
Federal Fire Policy Implementation:
FS AAR (Patti Koppenol): National AAR, R1 sent ranger and regional staff. Developing
national program of work based on AAR. Not anticipating anything nationally that would
preclude NR from moving forward. Presented concern that cost shares is a challenge. That was
vetted nationally, but probably won’t see much come from the national group, focusing more on
fuels side.
Conducted AAR on Bitterroot. Identified that we need to figure out how we talk about what we
are really doing internally and with the public. Communications is an area that continually needs
to be worked on, especially with new terminology.
WFDSS (ALL):
FS - Nationally continues to be updates to the program and systems, which creates a need for
continual training. Working on linking KDLs to WFDSS. Regionally FS established a 24 hour
call number to provide technical support. Working with line officers on documenting rationale.
Developed a communication strategy to work with the State DEQ’s on reporting when we are
managing fires for resource objectives. FLAME Act – will require new processes for accessing
funds for fires E size class and larger. There will be a risk management component tied to it.
BLM - will conduct training prior to fire season. Used on some fires last year. Plan to be fully
functional for this fire season. Questions still exist as to when they plan on integrating into
dispatch systems such as ROSS. WildCAD - have just come out with interface. Kit Kemsley
will provide information to the Board so they can distribute to others. Will use WFDSS on
larger fires. Nationally identified that getting access has been a problem. Working on getting
more GA editors.
FWS – moving towards implementation. Front end loading information into the system.
NPS – end of March all units will be implementing. Technical support is a concern. Program
should be locked down for next year and shouldn’t see a lot of changes.
BIA – RM put on 2 training sessions last year. Will have follow up workshops to address
changes. BIA developed program that will populate info from WFDSS to fire reporting and fire
coding systems.
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MDNRC – under no direction to change their documentation process. Some of the fire managers
and line officers did attend training and worked with their partners on some fires within the zone.
Looking at changing their current WFSA process within a year or so. Identified the need for
more training to understand the terminology and federal process. Concerns by line officers on
what they are signing (yes I agree) at the time and then if there becomes a change such as the fire
becomes multi-jurisdictional and now there is a need to enter into a cost share.
MDNRC Input on Implementation Strategy: see handout. MDNRC provided recommendations
that were taken forward to the FS national AAR. Offered as their perspective to maintain and
improve relationships as the implementation of the fire policy evolves. Concern about financial
impact to state and local government when a fire is being managed for resource objectives. This
is one of the biggest items on the MDNRCs agenda.
Local government shares the same concerns, especially the potential impacts that could be placed
on them. Willingness to want to figure it out together. Ted and Patti will supply the list of the
10 fires (see below) and Mike and Brett will reach out to local government and help to identify
potential concerns from those fires.
AAR Taskgroup: MDNRC and FS tasked a working group to review past fires (10) from this
season and capture concerns and lessons learned. The focus would be looking at all issues and
concerns, not just the new implementation strategy. The information will be provided to NRCG
as well as other groups that may be working on some of the same issues, as well as feedback to
Regional Forester and State Forester. State Forester is looking at potentially a product similar to
the structure protection guidelines.
S-580 Course (Paul Fieldhouse): National steering committee is looking at the course being
delivered at the geographic level. NR Rockies “Advanced Wildfire Management” is being
considered as an alpha test for the new objectives that could be taught at the geographic level.
Steering committee is working on objectives; National S-580 will be presented this spring as a
beta. They will use the objectives for a course that would be put on at the geographic level.
Train the trainer sessions targeted for fall 2010. Tossing around the concept that some of the
information taught could be modular and brought into other courses such as Fire Management
Leadership, etc.
Response Guide/CWPP Wildfire Response (Patti Koppenol): Development of a response guide
could identify how as agencies we are going to respond to wildfires in the WUI. Ravalli Co. is
updating CWPP and like the idea of incorporating a response guide as an appendix. Have
identified an area to prototype. Used Kootenai Creek fire as an opportunity to start working
with local government and community. There will be engagement with the community, local
government, state, and partners to identify how fire could be managed within the prototype area
under different types of conditions, example 2009 vs. 2007 seasons. Would also identify
mitigation opportunities that could happen prior to the fire. Need to listen to local input and
educate them at the same time. NRCG has interest in having a presentation at the Spring
meeting, if they are far enough along in the process.
Draft Interagency Template – Cooperative Fire Agreement (Len Dems): Final draft by
December. Will be presented at the January NWCG meeting to discuss/approve. Using the draft
to update the MT Cooperative Fire Agreement.
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Contracting for Fire (Tim Murphy): see handout
Next year Forest Service will try a pilot for crew carrier buses; will be part of the national
solicitation. Solicitation should be out within next 2 weeks and close after 1st of year. Forest
Service will also pilot a national solicitation for refrigeration units. Should be out the first of the
year. Water handling solicitation will be out again in 2010
Equipment/Personnel Verification MOU: Issue raised within the FS that this task is potentially
inherently governmental and is an augmentation of federal funds. WO OGC and Director of
AQM was okay (still waiting to get it in writing) with what the region is doing, but said we
cannot set a limit and timeframe on the number of MOUs accepted. MOU process was opened
up, by spring @ 7 Equipment/Personnel Verification will be in place.
Considerations for the Board: 1) For 2010 change wording in MOUs from water handling to any
type of equipment that is described in a solicitation. Have drafted a MOU that has been
reviewed by the FS and business committee. 2) Approval of NR Solicitation Workplan. 3)
Moratorium on Training Provider MOU - remove the July 2007 moratorium on training MOUs
and open it up as is being done with the equipment/personnel verification. Has been interest
expressed by contractors to be considered.
NIMO:
2009 Accomplishments: Conducted 18 different meetings/trainings on 7 different forests,
including some stakeholders – Continuous Improvement and Decision Making (CI), WFDSS
tool box of applications. Teamed up with FS regional staff with work they were doing with
Forests. On Kootenai Creek helped Forest develop long term plan. Talked about how could
develop T3 organizations and put on training on Bitterroot Forest. Didn’t have opportunities to
practice putting that in place on fires.
2010 Plans: Opportunity to expand audience to include communities not just forests. Have
identified @128 person days of CI version 2 to achieve that. Could also attend team meetings,
assist with early spring preparedness.
Len and all: we need to identify specific tasks that we think NIMO can do. Need to identify work
to keep them focused and keep them on task by requiring performance reports. Need to work
with Zones to identify what their needs are that NIMO could help with. NIMO could assist in
developing training for T3 teams, but they also have to be able to hand that off so the GA can
sustain that training without them delivering. Target spring meeting to have plan done to meet
with Jeff and his team and go through it.
Jeff will send notes on his thoughts for 2010 and lesson learned from collective NIMO AAR.
Zone MAC Training: NIMO participated in call to discuss need for zone training, but had not
heard what NRCG had decided.
NRCG AD Strategy (Patti Koppenol): FS Chief is concerned and is considering taking our
authority away if we don’t come up with a strategy to start bringing along more of our folks.
One of the challenges this field season is the ARRA (Economic Recovery) workload that will
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potentially impact the militia that are on IMT’s as well as support when there are local fires. FS
wants to look at this with all the partners - what this means within the NR and what can be done.
Ops Committee is willing to assess the current situation and provide recommendations. Work
and studies have already been done by NRCG in the past that could be looked at.
West-wide Risk Assessment (Ted Mead): see handout. Task from Western State Foresters to
the Western State Fire Managers to develop a risk assessment. It will cover all lands for 17
western states. Sanborn has been hired as the contractor. Assessment will model what was done
in the South and CO. End products will assess the level of concern which includes threat to
communities and develop a baseline for mitigation actions that have occurred. Results to be
delivered by July 2011. States may need to work with federal agencies to get good statewide
information to feed the process. Will be some challenges that will have to be resolved e.g. States
will have to provide a WUI layer, identify what is a community.
Periodic reports to NRCG would be good. NRCG may want to think about how they could use
the information. Highlight this to GIS task group so they are aware of this effort and may be
able to help the States provide information. Presentation at the spring NRCG meeting on what
the assessment is, the deliverables, and how the information is being used in other areas.
Training Update (Paul Fieldhouse): Influences affecting change in training: fire management is
changing – more of a need for special education; reorganization of NWCG – qualifications and
training groups have merged; NWCG no longer owns ICS - being used in all hazard response
(FEMA, Homeland Security).
Need to look at an integrated, efficient way of providing training in the future. Presented what
NRTC’s proposed role for the future could be: training offered will be current/quality (being
effective)/responsive (to needs); be part of the CORE for fire management training in NR; maybe
need to reorganize to meet the future needs e.g. do we still need the same training
specialists/different mix, etc.; look at how to serve non-traditional customers – those that can’t
attend a weekly session.
Initiatives currently on going include: Advance Wildland Fire Management, Fireline Safety
Officer class, NR Leadership Program (develop center for excellence in leadership training
(CELT); air attack group supervisor (ATGS) training and development; trainee coordinator
(example those that just went through CIMC looking for training opportunities); Operations
Section Chief to Planning Section Chief Bridge; S420F – field based command and general staff;
T3 IMT organization (IMO3) Workshop; and NRTC Extension and Continuing Education.
Miscellaneous: NRCG – input on NRTC Manager performance appraisal (may want to
consider); L580 – Gettysburg Staff Ride, 1 IC nomination from each GA; work with Operations
Committee on picking lead instructors.
CICM Report Out: 28 went through the class, only 1 person didn’t pass. Overall training was
good, had an all hazard component. First time that there had been a large amount of federal folks
participating. Jim Blankenship did a good job of planning and making the course happen.
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Agency Equipment Rates Contract (Biddy Simet): How agency charge each other for agency
owned equipment is inconsistent. States have already done their part of the process, with the
federal agencies to work on their part. There isn’t a need to hire a contractor. Have found out
there may not be parity across all Agencies due to difference in Agencies accounting systems,
personnel pay, etc. Board agreed to let the committee proceed without hiring a contractor and
bring forward what is contained in the rates and why there is a difference.
Committee Reports:
NAC Committee (Robert LaPlant) – Had I T2 IA crew, challenges with crew bosses, working
on standing up more T2 IA crews, crews have been doing ARRA work (Economic Recovery).
Ops Committee (Greg Archie) – Canadian in briefing packet being looked at to see how we can
improve ours; configuration of teams – IC agreed they could come in with 27 and negotiate
from there with agency administrator; look at utilizing a module concept for technical expertise
in FSPRO, RAVAR, and development of long term plans; ICs and NRTC will revisit succession
plan; working with the Alaska Fire Service (AFS) to back-fill shortage areas at higher
preparedness levels; develop a practice scenario to address unified command, cost-share, human
resource specialist, etc.; encourage zones to form T3 teams for in zone assignments; looking at
need to supplement T3 organizations with the skills they need when assigned to incidents; Team
selections Feb 17 and 18; will work on getting trainees out on teams. Board will meet with ICs
at spring meeting.
Board needs to look at services that are being provided and Agency administrators are used to
and/ or needing. Need to look at team responsibility vs. unit responsibility. Need to
communicate with Agency administrators that if they come shorter, what services won’t be
provided.
Training Committee (Paul Fieldhouse) – Moving forward with IQCS, but have found quality of
data needs to be improved. Prioritized out of geographic area students – haven’t seen a drop in
numbers, updated charter and operating plan. Cancellation policy within 30 days would be
considered late cancellation and subject to being charged. Recommendation that the training rep
@ the zone level determine whether or not a late fee should be charged.
Equipment Committee (Jim Reuter) – Coordinated 2 equipment inspection workshops @ 58
attended. Task force working on road grader specs and typing, looking at standardizing the
equipment inspection forms. Looking at putting on 2 workshops this spring.
Aviation Committee (Jim Kelton) – Issue to be aware of: MDNRC aircraft and federal
certification process. AMD can’t certify this fall and can do a waiver to extend another 6 month
- into early spring. Looking at possibly a lapse in certification where federal agencies can’t use
them. Discussion on air to ground naming convention – being looked at nationally will provide
input. Dickinson radio system (FS) looking at upgrading it from an interagency perspective.
Looking at having interagency meeting with Customs/Border patrol and look at what is going on
with predator aircraft. COR/COTR refresher training in spring. Powder River Military Area
looking at expanding, looking at how to mitigate potential impacts when there is fire activity in
that area. Developing tickler list on aviation needs/considerations on T3 incidents.
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Business Committee (Biddy Simet) – revised charter – identified people by position, not names;
identified rotation of chair – primary job is incident business. Accomplishments in 2009:
NRCG supplements, interaction with other committees including NWCG; attended team
meetings and workshops; worked with buying teams. Training included finance and logistics
workshops, S260 and S261, S360, I suite for locals, finance presentations at operation classes.
Worked on incident procurement support training, put together a T3 finance skills set and
checklist, IMT finance section evaluation, clarified rental car guidelines and commissary.
2010 - Participate in meetings and workshops, work with Rocky Basin on getting consistency on
buying teams between areas, finalize fire procurement training, S260, S261, S360, and Isuite
training. Develop talking point that will be used for other operational classes, working on
addressing PII, and incident recycling and waste.
FPA Committee (Ken Schmid) - Each committee member assigned 3-4 planning units.
Workshop in Oct to get units started on next phase, all units participated. March 16, 2010 due
date to complete, but due to errors in datasets can’t do validation. Nationally told to hold until it
can be fixed.
Prevention Committee (Cathy Scofield) - report attached. 2009 Campaign, “Think………Before
You Light It.” - messaging developed, recycled bag, portal signs; participated in WUI
Conference where had a prevention track – provided breakout session for programs, educational
modules, and products used; lots of activity within individual zones; more outreach to nontraditional partners – ID Firewise, MT Fire Safe, and Tribes.
2010 – looking at the campaign ND developed last year; focus on an umbrella campaign for next
few years, “Think……Campaign”, working with the corporate sports marketing contractors for
University sports, such as Grizzlies, Bobcats, Vandals to expand opportunities.
Proposal for Agency Administrators Workshop: see handout. Also consider adding
communications, priority matrix. Agree that we need to incorporate into zone opportunities,
such as spring meeting. Small group to flush out ideas, put framework together: Phil, Bob, Brett,
Cathy, Tracey, Len, Rick Siedltz, Pam
Dutch Creek Fatality: Investigation report is out with recommendations. Can be found online on
the NPS website.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
AFD Operating Plan: Correction on page 2, remove $10,000 for Native American Crew Support.
Agreed to move forward as identified on the spreadsheet for this year.
NMAC/GMAC Meeting Input: McMeekin, Dems, and Elzig will be going. What standards are
they going to use to evaluate IMTs against each other (Dutch Ck recommendation); equipment
typing – only support single typing; share MDNRC issues with federal fire policy
implementation, but make sure they don’t get misconstrued as agreed upon recommendations.
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Chairmanship: McMeekin is next chair, but has a heavy court schedule for the next couple of
years. Cory is Vice Chair. Board is okay with keeping rotation and if there is a lot of fire activity
then the board will cover those needs.
Contracting: Agreed to change of wording in MOUs from water handling to any type of
equipment that is described in a solicitation. Approved the NR Solicitation Workplan. Agreed to
remove the July 2007 Moratorium on the number of Training Provider MOUs.
Typing of Equipment: There will be no change from the Board’s 2004 decision to only single
type a piece of equipment. Work on educating dispatch and fire managers on newer equipment
and the type it represents.
Ground Safety Position: Position closed a couple of weeks ago. FS is picking up 75% of the
cost and NRCG 25%. Interagency piece would occur only doing the field season fire work, not
off season. Will allow for flexibility that may require some off season type of work.
Transition of Tracey’s NRCG Responsibilities: Creating a new position that will include the
NRCG responsibility, workforce and training oversight. Just starting the personnel process.
Looking at getting a detailer in the interim that would take on the NRCG responsibilities.
Spring meeting is April 5 (1300) – 7 (1200), 2010 in Missoula.
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