Minutes of the 46th meeting of the
Advisory Panel on Public Sector Information
Date:
Time:
Venue:
3 February 2015
11.00–15:30
The Nuffield Foundation, 28 Bedford Square, London
Attendees: Chair
Professor David Rhind
Members
Bob Barr
Keith Dugmore
Michael Jennings
David Lammey
Duncan Macniven
Hugh Neffendorf
Hilary Newiss
Bill Oates
Shane O‘Neill
Phillip Webb
Dean White
Expert Member
Expert Member
Expert Member
Representative Member for Northern Ireland
Representative Member for Scotland
Expert Member
Expert Member
Representative Member for Wales
Expert Member
Expert Member
Expert Member
Carol Tullo
Director, Information Policy & Services, The National
Archives
Head of Information Policy, The National Archives
Head of Standards, The National Archives
APPSI Secretariat (minutes)
Nonmembers
Malcolm Todd
Marcia Jackson
Beth Watson
Caron Alexander
Trevor Steenson
Mike Rabjohns
1.
Director of Digital Services, Department of Finance &
Personnel, Northern Ireland Executive (Item 3 only)
Digital Transformation Programme Director,
Department of Finance & Personnel, Northern Ireland
Executive
Shareholder Executive (Item 6 only)
Welcome, Apologies and Introductions
1.1.
Apologies were received from Paul Longley, Patricia Seex and Michael Nicholson.
1.2.
The Chairman welcomed Caron Alexander and Trevor Steenson to the meeting.
2.
Minutes of previous meeting and actions
2.1
The minutes were agreed as an accurate record.
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2.2
Hugh informed members that, since the last meeting, the glossary moderation panel had held a
telephone conference to discuss proposed amendments. The changes had now been agreed
and would be sent to data.gov.uk and the APPSI secretary so that the glossary could be
updated.
2.3. The Chairman informed members that GeoPlace had written to explain that, it had agreed at its
last Board meeting that it would like to support the release of UPRNs, the issue was now being
discussed in the context of broader government decisions on Open Data and is being managed at
a central level.
3.
Developments in PSI and Open Data in Northern Ireland
The Chairman welcomed Caron Alexander and Trevor Steenson to the meeting. He expressed his
pleasure at the progress Northern Ireland had made on OD and praised David for his efforts in
keeping PSI on the agenda over the years.
Caron began by explaining that until her appointment as Director of Digital Services in January
2014, there had been only a piecemeal approach to OD in Northern Ireland. Therefore it was
necessary to draw up a new strategy quickly. While the new PSI Directive has acted as a driver for
change, it was recognised that this was the right thing to do. It was important to demonstrate that
the strategy was for everyone, not only government, and that OD would bring social and economic
benefits
When drawing up the strategy the team consulted with departmental data managers and the wider
public sector, both in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. They also took into account
developments in Europe and existing research into best practice. An OD survey they conducted in
November received 84 responses and, as with similar surveys, it was clear that the commercial
sector knows what data it wants to access and that it can utilise.
The strategy, which has been agreed by the Permanent Secretary and Ministers, sets out nine
principles in Plain English:
1) All data on the NI Open Data platform is authoritative, accessible, relevant, timely,
accurate and as unprocessed as possible
2) Use of open standards to ensure interoperability
3) Data published on the NI Open Data portal will as a minimum conform to step 3 on the 5star deployment scheme
4) Open standards for publishing data will be built into contracts and procurements for
services and systems
5) Use of the Open Government Licence
6) Feedback mechanisms will be available for data released as open data
7) Datasets will be updated in accordance with agreed refresh schedules
8) Transparency about reasons for withholding datasets
9) All data will be considered for archiving
With regard to Principle 8, she was clear that loss of income would not be a reason not to release
data. It was possible the datasets most in demand would be those where there was most
likelihood of the government losing income but it would have to look at other options for generating
income if this was the case.
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It also includes a roadmap which will ensure that the correct governance regime is put in place,
appropriate standards are set and put in the public domain, and that departments can identify the
information they want to publish. It is also hoped that the new OD platform on nidirect.gov.uk will
be fully functional by the end of 2015 at the latest. Northern Ireland OD is currently on data.gov.uk
and much is only rated 1 or 2 on 5-star OD deployment scheme. The success of the strategy will
depend on business areas breaking with the current culture of protecting their data, and the public
being reassured that their privacy is not at risk.
Phillip asked how the benefits of the strategy will be measured. Caron said that they would not be
quantifying success in strict financial terms as this would be difficult to do, at least at this point.
However, they would track released datasets and would continue to work with companies and
SME groups to assess how it has benefitted them and the economy.
Hugh was supportive of the strategy and was pleased to see that Northern Ireland had adopted its
own approach rather than copying the rest of the UK. However, he had some concerns that the
terminology used could be taken to suggest that the publication of raw data was automatically
preferable to that of processed data; statistical data, for example, was highly processed but still
very useful. Trevor agreed that the statement could be rephrased but it was still a good idea to
publish data as quickly and as unprocessed as possible and big users wanted unprocessed
information for data-mining as it avoided the need to disaggregate. Caron confirmed that the
publication of processed data would still be acceptable if it was in the correct format.
David asked if there were any high value government datasets which could be released. Trevor
there was a particular interest in putting transport data on the new platform and the Northern
Ireland Department for Education had already published much of its data. Departments were keen
to see their information being used more and initial reluctance to release information caused by
data breaches was breaking down.
4.
TNA Update on current PSI Issues
Staff changes
Carol informed members that Malcolm Todd had been appointed as Head of Information Policy
following the retirement of Jim Wretham. A new member of staff has also been recruited to
produce and edit guidance on information policy and official publishing issues.
Outreach
The National Archives has continued its outreach work and has run a number of workshops and
seminars in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to explain the impact of the new Directive. In
November Carol spoke at the Centre for Freedom of Information’s European Conference in
Edinburgh, and a seminar has also been run for Scottish Local Authorities.
Marcia has been working closely with museums, archives and galleries to encourage the culture
change necessary to facilitate the introduction of the Directive’s requirements.
Triennial Review of the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO)
The National Archives has been assisting colleagues on the Ministry of Justice on the triennial
review of the Information Commissioner’s Office. The consultation, which closed on 16 January,
received 165 responses (the highest number ever received). It is expected that the outcome of
Stage One of the Review will be published by the end of March 2015.
Transposition
The OD community had continued to press for the ICO redress option and The National Archives
had therefore reopened the discussion with HM Treasury, the ICO and Scottish Information
Commissioner. HM Treasury were initially of the view that a public sector body could not make
decisions that could affect the funding and business model of another public sector body. They
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also had concerns about the impact on public expenditure of any judicial redress mechanism,
although taking the complaints received over the last ten years as a guide, it is unlikely that many
would be of a magnitude to concern HM Treasury. However, at a meeting last week HM Treasury
had agreed to the ICO option and the ICO, the Scottish Information Commissioner and
departmental lawyers had been consulted. It has been agreed that, if a commercial trading body
wishes to appeal against an ICO decision notice, the review will be undertaken by the First Tier
Tribunal. There would also be an option to subsequently refer a case to an Upper Tribunal but it
was not expected that this would be used in many cases, if appeals followed the same pattern as
FOI.
The National Archives would now redraft the provisions in the Directive to reflect this agreement
and to revise the impact assessment. It will then be necessary to obtain Ministerial approval. If it is
not possible to do this before the start of purdah, the intention is to publish the Government’s
response to the consultation and a written ministerial statement setting out the next steps.
The Chairman observed that the proposals represented a fundamental change and asked about
the potential impact on OPSI. Carol explained that it was only its role in complaints handling that
OPSI would lose, and she agreed with members that this could be a positive move as it would
reinforce OPSI’s position as the provider of independent guidance and support. She also
confirmed that OPSI had been working closely with the Charity Commission and organisations
such as museums and archives that would fall under the scope of the new Directive.
5.
Developments in the Public Sector Transparency Board (PSTB)
The PSTB met on 15 January. At the meeting The National Archives presented a paper
legislation data, DWP gave a presentation on its work on OD and Heather Savory spoke on the
National Information Infrastructure (weblink circulated to members previously).
There was also a discussion on the change in status of Ordnance Survey (see item 6 below). It
was made clear that OS data would remain Crown, as would any work done on it, and Carol has
subsequently received written confirmation of this from the Minister of State for Business,
Enterprise and Energy, Matthew Hancock.
6.
Change of Status for Ordnance Survey: what does it mean?
The Chairman welcomed Mike Rabjohns from the Shareholder Executive (ShEx), who spoke to
members about the anticipated impact of Ordnance Survey’s (OS) transition from a Trading Fund
to a Government owned, contractor operated company (a GoCo).
The change in status had been announced by the Minister of State for Business, Enterprise and
Energy, on 22 January 2015. As OS’ current business model was already very close to that of a
limited company, the change is unlikely to have a huge impact in practice – it is essentially ‘a
change of wrapper’. It will still be required to publish a statement of its public task and will be
covered by the IFTS and Crown copyright (although Crown to Crown agreements will no longer
be possible). However, putting OS on a proper competitive footing and giving its Board more
responsibility for how it operates will enable it to keep pace with the rest of the market. This was
particularly important for its consultancy arm, which is expanding but is currently limited by Civil
Service restrictions on the nature of the work it can undertake.
In terms of Open Data (OD) it is also hoped that it will lead to better licensing arrangements and
generate new opportunities to make more data available. The Board will be able to take into
consideration commercial factors when deciding on what data to make publically available and at
what cost but they will remain accountable to Ministers who will sign off OS’ departmental
strategy, including its plans from Open Data release.
Mike stressed that there was no intention to privatise OS and, like the Royal Mint, it would remain
wholly publically owned. In response to questions from members he explained that the
Government needed to see an acceptable return from its investment so the GoCo would pay a
dividend but that this would be subject to corporation tax. Pay scales for staff were yet to be
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agreed but it was expected that pay settlements would not be subject to the same restrictions as
those for civil servants.
Bill expressed concern that well-established working relationship between the Welsh
Government and OS was at risk with OS’ change in status. To this point the sharing of expertise
and information necessary to developing the products the Welsh Government needed to
underpin its legislative programme had been possible because it was civil servant to civil servant.
He wondered how this relationship could continue if OS was no longer a Crown body. It was
Mike’s view that the relationship need not change substantially although Crown to Crown
agreements would not longer be possible. A decision was still to be made about the PSMA so it
was not clear that this point whether current arrangements are repeatable. ShEx would keep the
PSMA user group informed of developments. Members noted that a change of status could
cause extra bureaucracy where new agreements needed to be drawn up and hoped that
measures would be in place to avoid this.
Phillip asked what measures were being taken when recruiting senior staff to ensure that OS
attracted entrepreneurs and experienced commercial operators who could push the organisation
forward. He also asked what the response from business had been to the change of status. Mike
said that work would be done on putting a suitable remuneration framework in place and to allow
OS management sufficient freedom to run the business in a way that would make it successful.
There had been little response from commerce about the change of status but what had been
received was broadly positive.
Shane said that there was considerable concern in the partner group about OS’ growing
commercial operations and in particular its overseas expansion. . Mike agreed that OS
communications with partners needed to improve and that it had already started to lay the
foundations of a partner first strategy. It recognised that it needed to move forward as the market
changes but this should not be done at the expense of the current market.
Bob asked if the accounting standards observed by OS would change with its new status. It
could be argued that the NAO had valued the OS database incorrectly as its value depends on
the future of the data and OS could have been given an unfair advantage over competitors. Mike
said that accounting practice was being examined.
Hugh asked if the balance of revenue from government and other sectors would change. Mike
said it was possible that public sector organisations would be less willing to pay but the possible
growth in OS’ consultancy business could balance this out.
Dean asked if OS as a GoCo would have exclusive rights when it came to licensing data.
Carol confirmed that OS would still be subject to licensing restrictions.
The Chairman thanked Mike for his participation in the discussion.
7.
The ESRC Big Data Programme and use of private sector data for academic research
Keith Dugmore gave a presentation on the work of the ESRC’s Consumer Data Research Centre
(CDRC). Members were particularly interested in the possibilities of greater data sharing
between the government and commercial organisations to improve public policy making. They
wondered, for example, if Boots or GSK could work with the NHS, or utility companies should
share their data to help the Government identify instances of fuel poverty. However, they
recognised that robust rules need to be in place to regulate how information could be reused, to
strike the right balance between what can be done in terms of data analysis and what should be
done, and to reassure the public that their privacy would not be violated.
8.
The potential role of synthetic or modelled data and its impact on PSI and Open Data
Hugh explained that there is a growing interest in synthetic data, as demonstrated by the setting
up of a Cabinet Office taskforce on modelled data. This is partly due to the recognition that big
data can be very biased and that there is therefore a need to understand and correct for this. It is
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also becoming increasingly hard to convince the public that actual data can be anonymised to
the extent that it cannot be cracked.
Synthetic environments are formed of agent-based models and can be very realistic
representations which produce usable data. Their use is most advanced in the defence sector
but as synthesising avoids data protection and anonymisation issues, there is scope for their
wider use, including possibly future censuses.
Members were interested to know how modelled data could be validated. Hugh said that a lot of
work was being done on aggregate data, looking at outputs and comparing them with counts. It
was suggested that researchers could take aggregate data from the census, simulate multiple
populations and then compare the results with the actual census.
Hillary suggested that the risk of deanonymisation was likely to have been overestimated
following one or two high profile cases. However, using synthetic data would overcome concerns
over privacy, especially relating to health data, and would allow the release of data that
otherwise could not be released. Dean noted that Health England were looking at the
possibilities of using synthetic data. Members agreed that the increased use of synthetic data
could help to change the public perception of the re-use of PSI.
9.
Updates from the Devolved Administrations

Scotland
Duncan informed members that the Scottish Open Data Strategy was waiting for Ministerial
sign-off but a seminar had been held to give an overview of it. It is an 8-page, high-level
document which focusses on encouraging public sector organisations to publish their own
data rather than creating a centralised repository for Scottish OD.
He also noted that the Scottish Neighbourhood Statistics site was now at the testing stage. It
is envisaged that the site will enable small organisations to publish on this OD public platform
site and the emphasis will be on publishing data even if it is not perfect.
In the local authority arena, the Scottish Cities Alliance project had recently received £10
million to develop further initiatives modelled on OPEN Glasgow. There is also a renewed
push to link local authority social care and health data.

Wales
Bill informed members that there had been no major developments since the last APPSI
meeting. Ministers were still considering the proposed data strategy.

Northern Ireland
David informed members that Northern Ireland’s new data strategy had been submitted to
Ministers. It focusses on refreshing data rather than pushing for the release of datasets and
is high level. To ensure that targets are met an implementation board will be established,
supported by an advisory board of experts and a technology sub-group. It is expected that
the First Minister and Deputy First Minister will agree the strategy and this will encourage
other Ministers to commit to supporting the roll-out.
The Chairman observed that, after slow start, Northern Ireland had come a long way on OD
and much of this had been due to David’s hard work. He thanked David for his commitment.
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10.
The Chairman’s meeting with the Minister for Justice and the future of APPSI
The Chairman met Simon Hughes in November to discuss the provisional outcome of the
triennial review. After consultation with the Cabinet Office Mr Hughes subsequently agreed to
accept the recommendations of the triennial review report that there is no longer a need for the
current non-statutory functions of APPSI to continue. The Chairman informed members that a
written ministerial statement had been issued at 9:30 announcing that APPSI would cease to
carry out its non-statutory functions and would be abolished once its statutory function ceases to
exist with transposition of Directive 2013/37/EU during 2015.
Carol explained that The National Archives would work with APPSI on the winding up
arrangements, including the archiving of the website and identifying an internal team or other
department to host the PSI and OD glossary. Members stressed that it was important that the
information and papers published on the website were not lost and that the glossary was
maintained. Hugh thought it unlikely that the Cabinet Office would want to take on the glossary
although they could still be asked. If they refused, The National Archives would be suitable
custodians.
It was agreed that, as APPSI included representatives from the devolved administrations, as a
courtesy letters should be sent to inform them of the outcome of the review.
Members agreed that a final overview of APPSI’s work should also be published. This could be
an update of 2013’s Impact of APPSI report.
In terms of the statutory functions it would be necessary for arrangements to be in place to
enable Review Boards to be convened if a complaint was referred to APPSI. While members
whose terms ended from this point would not be replaced, a sufficient number of members would
still be in place by the transposition deadline to form a Board if required. However, the
Chairman’s current term would end on 30 April and he announced that he would not be seeking
an extension. Therefore, it would be necessary to appoint a temporary Chairman from amongst
the current members who could serve from the end of April until abolition. ACTION: The
Chairman asked that expressions of interest from members be sent to the secretary.
The wording of the written ministerial statement meant that there was some ambiguity over
whether APPSI should continue to operate as normal until transposition or if it should cease to
give advice to Ministers with immediate effect. Members agreed that there should be a final short
meeting for current members, which could be followed on the same day by an event to include
former members and others in late March or early April. ACTION: The secretary would circulate
possible dates.
At the end of the discussion Hugh thanked the Chairman for his leadership and commitment to
APPSI.
11.
Any Other Business
None.
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