(c) crown copyright
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THIS DOCUMENT I o THE PROPERTY OF HIS BRITAKNIC MAJESTY S GOVERNMENT).
1
J
3 E OR E T.
C A B I N E T
24
(22),
CONCLUSIONS o f a M e e t i n g of t h e C a b i n e t h e l d
i n Mr, C h a r a h e r l a i n ' s Room, House of Commons,
S . W . , on Monday, A p r i l 1 0 t h , 1 9 2 2 , a t 4 . 1 5 p . m .
P R E S E N T : The R i g h t Hon. A. C h a m b e r l a i n ,
Lord Pro vy S e a l .
(In the C h a i r ) ,
11.P.,
The R i g h t Hon. E . S h o r t t , K . C . , M . P . ,
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r Home A f f a i r s .
The R i g h t Hon. Y/.S. C h u r c h i l l ,
M . P . , S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r
the Colonies.
The R i g h t Hon. The V i s c o u n t P e e l ,
G.B.E., S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r
India.
The R i g h t Hon. S , B a l d w i n , M . P . ,
P r e s i d e n t of t h e Board of T r a d e .
The R i g h t l i o n . S i r y \ l f r e d Mond,
B a r t . , H . P . , i t f i r i l s t e r of H e a l t h .
The R i g h t Hon. H . A . L . F i s h e r ,
M . P . , P r e s i d e n t of t h e Board
of E d u c a t i o n ,
The R i g h t Hon. S i r A. G r i f f i t h B o s c a w e n , M . P . , M i n i s t e r of
A g r i c u l t u r e and F i s h e r i e s .
The R i g h t Hon. S i r Hamar Greenwood,
B a r t . , K . C , , M . P . , Chief S e c r e t a r y
for I r e l a n d .
The R i g h t Hon. The E a r l of
and B a l c a r r e s , K . T . , F i r s t
of Works.
Crawford
Commissioner
TIPS FOLLOWING WERE ALSO PRESENT: Mr. E. H i l t o n Young, D . S . O . . D . S . C . ,
M.P., F i n a n c i a l S e c r e t a r y to the
Treasury.
Mr. Thomas J o n e s
Mr. R . B . H o w o r t h
Mr. H . J . W i l s o n , C . B . , C . R , E . ,
S e c r e t a r y to the M i n i s t r y of
Labour. (For Conclusion 6 ) .
...Acting
Assistant
Secretary.
Secretary.
ISBLA5D
'p
(1)
With r e f e r e n c e
to C a b i n e t 23 ( 2 2 ) C o n c l u s i o n 1
(c)
­
(a) Private
L e t t e r to
the S e c r e t a r y
Mr.Collins,
statement
o f S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s made a
on t h e I r i s h s i t u a t i o n .
brief
In h i s opinion the ­
n e x t ten d a y s w o u l d u n d o u b t e d l y b e o f c r i t i c a l
importance
and b e f o r e a month b a d p a s s e d we s h o u l d know w h e t h e r
l e a d e r s of the Pree S t a t e were prepared
endure without
them.
resistance
o f Mr C o l l i n s i n t h e l a s t
released
d a y or
continuing,
letter
w o u l d b e more h e l p f u l
With r e f e r e n c e
attitude
to b e
to
He t h o u g h t
d e s i r e d by the
putting
Cabinet.
to a
that he should not r e t u r n to Dublin at the
suggestion
present
j u n c t u r e Lord P i t z A l a n s a i d h i s a b s e n c e w o u l d
not o n l y be h i g h l y i n c o n v e n i e n t
i n v i e w o f many
social
,engagements a l r e a d y f i x e d but would a l s o be h a r d l y
to the l e a d e r s
pointed
it
23 ( 2 2 ) C o n c l u s i o n 1 ( d )
t h e V i c e r o y w a s p r e s e n t and i n r e s p o n s e
critical
offered
the l a s t Cabinet
to w r i t e a p r i v a t e l e t t e r
to C a b i n e t
to
two.
t o Mr C o l l i n s .
forward' the c o n s i d e r a t i o n s
(b)
of t h e
s a i d he would l i k e
from h i s u n d e r t a k i n g a t
w r i t e an o f f i c i a l
or
t h e i n s u l t s now b e i n g
T h e r e w e r e s i g n s of a s t i f f e n i n g
Mr C h u r c h i l l ,
to f i g h t
the
out
of the P r o v i s i o n a l Government.
It
fair
was
to Lord P i t z & l a n t h a t w h i l e he was p r e p a r e d
to r u n c o n s i d e r a b l e p e r s o n a l r i s k any untoward
incident,
s u c h a s s e i z u r e by e n e m i e s of t h e P r e e S t a t e ,
would
p l a c e H i s M a j e s t y ' s Government i n a v e r y
position,
and i t w a s t h e r e f o r e i m p e r a t i v e
r e g a l Lodge s h o u l d be p r o p e r l y
embarrassing
that
the
Vice­
safeguarded.
The C a b i n e t a g r e e d : ­
( 1 ) That the S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r the C o l o n i e s
s h o u l d send a p r i v a t e and n o t a f o r m a l l e t t e r
t o Mr C o l l i n s .
( 2 ) That t h e S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s
should reguest the G . 0 , C . I r e l a n d to provide a t
once an a d e q u a t e m i l i t a r y g u a r d f o r the p r o t e c t ­
i o n of t h e V i c e r o y w h i l e i n r e s i d e n c e i n I r e l a n d .
THE.COM3 TABHLARY.
P (IRELAM D) i' BILL).,
The C a b i n e t had u n d e r
consideration
a Memo b y t h e C h i e f S e c r e t a r y f o r
(CP.3931)
covering
give legal
effect,
the d r a f t
so f a r
Ireland
of a B i l l
as is
necessary,
t o t h e t e r m s on w h i c h t h e G o v e r n m e n t
undertaken
to disband the Royal
Constabulary.
After
have
Irish
the need f o r
had been e m p h a s i s e d the C a b i n e t
to
urgency
agreed:­
(1)
To a p p r o v e t h e d r a f t B i l l s u b j e c t
t o c e r t a i n d r a f t i n g p o i n t s t o be
s e t t l e d by the Chief S e c r e t a r y for
I r e l a n d and t h e F i n a n c i a l S e c r e t a r y
to t h e T r e a s u r y i n c o n s u l t a t i o n .
(2)
To a u t h o r i s e t h e i m m e d i a t e
i n t r o d u c t i o n of the B i l l i n the
House of Commons and t o t a k e s t e p s
to s e c u r e i t s p a s s a g e i n t o law
as soon a s p o s s i b l e a f t e r the
Easter r e c e s s .
(3)
That p e n d i n g t h e p a s s a g e of t h e
B i l l i n t o law the T r e a s u r y should
make a r r a n g e m e n t s .to p r o v i d e t h e
r e q u i s i t e funds.
^iSGrUAEDIHGr
J .
CT.(PART I I ) .
3,
W INDUS TKliSS
With r e f e r e n c e
the
(CP.
to Cabinet
19 (22)
Conclusion
C a b i n e t had u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n Memoranda
3852
and C P .
3898)
by t h e P r e s i d e n t of
B o a r d of T r a d e r e l a t i v e t o t h e q u e s t i o n of
e x e r c i s e b y t h e B o a r d of T r a d e o f t h e i r
the
the
powers
u n d e r t h e S a f e g u a r d i n g of I n d u s t r i e s A c t ( P a r t
t o make and Ckder r e l a t i v e
II),
t o F a b r i c G l o v e s and
Glove M a t e r i a l s .
The C a b i n e t w e r e i n f o r m e d
t h a t an immediate
d e c i s i o n w a s d e s i r a b l e i n a a much a s t h e w h o l e
of t h e p o l i c y
criticised
on w h i c h t h e A c t w a s b a a e d waa t o b e
i n t h e House o f Commons on W e d n e s d a y
next.
In the case under c o n s i d e r a t i o n the
Committee
had r e p o r t e d u n a n i m o u s l y i n f a v o u r of t h e
exercise
by t h e Board of Trade of t h e i r power u n d e r P a r t
II
of t h e A c t t o i m p o s e a n i m p o r t d u t y o f 33 l / 3 c l on
r
i m p o r t e d f a b r i c g l o v e s and g l o v e m a t e r i a l s .
the recommendations
over-ruled
of t h i s u n a n i m o u s R e p o r t w e r e ,
the whole c a s e f o r P a r t I I
would d i s a p p e a r .
If
I t was, however,
of t h e A c t
doubtful
w h e t h e r t h e Lancashire F i n e S p i n n i n g I n d u s t r y would
b e i n a n y r e s p e c t damaged i f
t h e o r d e r w e r e made
and i t w o u l d b e i m p o s s i b l e t o a d m i n i s t e r t h e A c t
if
t h r e a t s of r e t a l i a t i o n b y Germany w e r e t o
On t h e o t h e r h a n d ,
t h a t t h e £aw O f f i c e r s
the Cabinet were
had now a d v i s e d
reminded
t h a t the power
o f t h e B o a r d o f T r a d e t o make a n O r d e r u n d e r
2 (3)
of t h e A c t i s
d i s c r e t i o n a r y and t h a t i f
o r d e r w e r e made i n t h e p r e s e n t c a s e one o f t h e
staple
industries
be a l i e n a t e d ,
of t h e c o u n t r y w o u l d
w h i l e i t waa d o u b t f u l
t h e s m a l l g l o v e i n d u s t r y would b e
Section
an
great
certainly
whether
benefited.
If In
prevail.
these
In these circumstances
t h e Beard of Trade
should
w e i g h t h e b a l a n c e of damage and u s e t h e i r
by o v e r - r u l i n g the Committee,
discretion
ilo d o u b t t h e f e a r s
of
L a n c a s h i r e were e x a g g e r a t e d , but i n the p r e s e n t
state
of t h e c o t t o n t r a d e the p s y c h o l o g i c a l
the
threatened
effect
German a c t i o n m i g h t b e v e r y
The C a b i n e t iWere a l s o - r e m i n d e d
Lancashire objections
of
prejudicial.
that
the
t o t h e o r d e r d i d n o t come
w i t h i n t h e t e r m s of r e f e r e n c e o f t h e C o m m i t t e e and
w e r e a f a c t o r f o r c o n s i d e r a t i o n b y Government
I n t h e c o u r s e of t h e d i s c u s s i o n i t
itself.
transpired
t h a t of t h e s e v e n K e p o r t s r e c e i v e d b y the B o a r d
Trade t h r e e had b e e n a d v e r s e t o t h e i n d u s t r i e s
f o u r had b e e n f a v o u r a b l e
t o t h e m a k i n g of
and t h a t t h e B o a r d of T r a d e p r o p o s e d
i n t h r e e of t h e f o u r c a s e s ,
out t h a t i n these circumstances i t
represented
and
Orders
t o make O r d e r s
the remaining
b e i n g t h e one u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n .
of
case
I t was p o i n t e d
could not be
that P a r t I I o f t h e A c t w a s a d e a d
letter.
The C a b i n e t , b y a m a j o r i t y ,
decided;-
That h a v i n g r e g a r d to the v e r y s p e c i a l
c i r c u m s t a n c e s , of t h e c a s e i t was n o t
d e s i r a b l e t h a t t h e B o a r d of T r a d e s h o u l d
make t h e p r o p o s e d O r d e r r e l a t i n g t o
f a b r i c g l o v e s and g l o v e m a t e r i a l s
u n d e r P a r t I I o f t h e S a f e g u a r d i n g I n d u s t r i e s fjIT.
Note.
Subsequently a t the express request
of
t h e P r e s i d e n t o f t h e B o a r d o f T r a d e t h e Lord
Privy Seal authorised
a c t i o n to be
suspended
on t h e above d e c i s i o n p e n d i n g f u r t h e r
consideration
of the q u e s t i o n by a f u l l e r Meeting of the
on a l a t e r
Occasion.
Cabinet
USTNG
(4)
The C a b i n e t h a d u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n t h e f o l l o w i n g
THE
ppBlAL
d o c u m e n t s r e l a t i v e t o phe q u e s t i o n o f t h e f u t u r e h o u s i n g o f
o
1 \ . JSEUM t h e I m p e r i a l War Museunu
(Memos b y t h e F i r s t C o m m i s s i o n e r o f W o r k s ,
CP.3848 (already c i r c u l a t e d ) .
Memo: b y t h e C h a n c e l l o r o f t h e E x c h e q u e r ,
C, P.3877 ( a I r eady c i r o n l a t e d ) .
Memo: b y t h e S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s ,
- C P . 3880 ( a l r e a d y c i r c u l a t e d ) .
Memo? b y t h e M i n i s t e r of H e a l t h ,
C.P,3892 ( a l r eady c i r o u l a t e d ) ,
L e t t e r from t h e High C o m m i s s i o n e r o f T'ew Z e a l a n d ,
CP.3920
(already
circulated).
The C a b i n e t w e r e r e m i n d e d t h a t a t p r e s e n t
the
Imperial
War Museum w a s v e r y b a d l y a n d e x p e n s i v e l y h o u s e d a t
the
Palace.
necessary
The e a r l y t e r m i n a t i o n of
t h e l e a s e made i t
t o move t h e c o l l e c t i o n s e l s e w h e r e a n d i t w a s o u t o f t h e
t o p r o v i d e a new b u i l d i n g f o r
Museum h a d r e d i i c e d t h e i r
them.
The T r u s t e e s o f
the
in the Imperial I n s t i t u t e ,
The I m p e r i a l
e x t e n t of £ 2 5 ^ 0 0 0 a y e a r , , b y t h s Crown C o l o n i e s and
to t h e e x t e n t of £ 2 1 , 0 0 0 a y e a r ,
e x t e n t of £ 8 , 0 0 0 a y e a r .
was
Science
I n s t i t u t e was s u b s i d i s e d b y t h e B r i t i s h Government t o
fit
question
indent for s p a c e by 60^ and i t
p r o p o s e d t o accommodate t h e c o l l e c t i o n p a r t l y i n t h e
Museum a n d p a r t l y
Crystal
the
Protectorates
and b y t h e Bominions t o
I t was o n l y p r o p o s e d t o t a k e
the space a t the I n s t i t u t e
f o r Museum p u r p o s e s .
imperial I n s t i t u t e .
of h o u s i n g t h e I m p e r i a l w a r Museum a t
I t was i m p o s s i b l e t o f o r c e t h e
upon t h e D o m i n i o n s a g a i n s t t h e i r w i l l
and t h e r e was
t h e D o m i n i o n s w i t h d r a w i n g a l t o g e t h e r from
Imperial I n s t i t u t e ,
i n which case i t would be v e r y
t o p e r s u a d e t h e Crown C o l o n i e s t o c o n t i n u e t h e i r
If t h i s unfortunate
templated
consisten
On t h e o t h e r h a n d e m p h a s i s w a s "-aid o n t h e
great difficulties
d a n g e r of
3$
The o p p o s i t i o
o f t h e D o m i n i o n s h a d b e e n h e a d e d b y Hew Z e a l a n d a n d was
and r e g u l a r .
the
the
proposal
great
the
difficult'
contributions.
event was to happen t h e whole of the oon­
s a v i n g s would be
lost.
R e f e r e n c e was made t o t h e f a c t
t h a t when t h e
TTnJversitv
\
\of London e v a c u a t e d t h e I m p e r i a l
ample s p a c e for e x p a n s i o n .
I n s t i t u t e t h e r e would be
Moreover
9
/the
tendency
t h e t e n d e n c y was f o r t h e Dominions t o p r o v i d e
own a c c o m m o d a t i o n e l s e w h e r e .
their
The p r e s e n c e o f t h e I m p e r i a l
w a r Museum i n t h e I m p e r i a l I n s t i t u t e w o u l d
a t t r a c t t h e p u b l i c and s o i n d i r e c t l y b e n e f i t
undoubtedly
t h e Dominions
and t h e Grown C o l o n i e s .
^ f t e r some f u r t h e r d i s c u s s i o n t h e C a b i n e t
(i)
(ii)
To a p p r o v e - i n p r i n c i p l e t h e p r o p o s a l s o f t h e
F i r s t C o m m i s s i o n e r of Works f o r t h e f u t u r e h o u s i n g
o f t h e I m p e r i a l War Museum, p r o v i d e d t h a t i t w a s
found p o s s i b l e t o s e c u r e t h e a c q u i e s c e n c e o f t h e
D o m i n i o n s i n t h e u s e r t o b e made o f t h e b u i l d i n g s
of t h e I m p e r i a l I n s t i t u t e .
So a u t h o r i s e t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r
t h e C o l o n i e s t o a p p r o a c h t h e Dominions w i t h t h e
p r o p o s a l t h a t H i s M a j e s t y s Government w o u l d
b e p r e p a r e d t o p a y a r e n t o f £1500 p e r annum
f o r t h e accommodation to be provided i n
t h e I m p e r i a l I n s t i t u t e a n d t o make a f u r t h e r
c o n t r i b u t i o n v C t o w a r d s t h e f u n d s of t h e I n s t i t u t e ;
t h e Dominions t o be n o t i f i e d of t h e a d v a n t a g e s
whfcch w o u l d a c c r u e t o t h e m from t h e p r e s e n c e
of t h e I m p e r i a l War Museum i n t h e I n s t i t u t e
BuiId i n g s .
1
3,Sooju^A^^.
agreeds­
-6­
1,051? CTiUMBR AND THB MALTBSB
LOCAL FOROB*
5o
The C a b i n e t h a d u n d e r
eon­
s i d e r a t i on a Memorandum by
the
Secretary
Colonies
(CP.
of
State
for
3906) r e l a t i v e
the
to
the
m a i n t e n a n c e of t h e M a l t e s e
iforce.
The C a b i n e t w e r e
t h a t the S e c r e t a r y
Local
informed
of S t a t e
for
War had now a g r e e d t o p r o v i d e a
sum o f J - 2 5 , 0 0 0 i n t h e war
Office
Estimates
financial
for t h e c u r r e n t
y e a r for t h i s
service.
The C a b i n e t t o o k n o t e o f
approved t h i s
and
arrangement.
(. UILDIiJG TRADE
AND EX-SERVICE
ggXJ.
( 6 ) The C a b i n e t h a d u n d e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n a Memorandum
fry
t h e M i n i s t e r o f L a b o u r ( C P . 3 8 1 4 ) on t h e
subject
o f t h e s c h e m e s f o r t r a i n i n g e x - s e r v i c e men i n
building
the
trade.
The C a b i n e t w e r e r e m i n d e d o f t h e r e a s o n s f o r
failure
of the f i t
desirability
to f a c i l i t a t e
e x - s e r v i c e m e n ' s scheme and of
of p s r s u a d i n g
the schemes for
j e o p a r d i s e d by the f i t
Emphasis was l a i d
"
training
disabled
men"s scheme.
on t h e d e s i r a b i l i t y
t h e y would a s s i s t
m e n ' s scheme i n t h e event
being
being
of
obtaining
a s s u r a n c e from the e m p l o y e r s and
unions concerned that
of t h e f i t
the
men's
trade
disabled
scheme
abandoned.
The C a b i n e t a g r e e d ­
( 1 ) That t h e scheme f o r t h e t r a i n i n g and
e m p l o y m e n t o f f i t e x - s e r v i c e men i n t h e
b u i l d i n g t r a d e s h o u l d be abandoned.
(2) T h a t t h e M i n i s t e r o f L a b o u r s h o u l d make
u s e of t h e G o v e r n m e n t s r e a d i n e s s to abandon
t h e scheme i n o r d e r t o s e c u r e t h e maximum
p o s s i b l e advantages for the disabled, ex­
. s e r v i c e men.
5
vVhltehal^te^^rdens,,
Apria?*&a*ks*a&g2
a.-w.
the
t h e e m p l o y e r s a n d workmen
e x - s e r v i c e men, w h i c h s c h e m e s w e r e a t p r e s e n t
some d e f i n i t e
the
z
(7)
She C a b i n e t t o o k n o t e o f t h e f o l l o w i n g : ­
C o m m i t t e e o f Home A f f a i r s 108, h e l d on
M a r c h 21st,
1922 a t 4-15 p . m .
(i)
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
OXFORD AND S T . ALBANS WINE PRIVILEGES
NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE B i l l .
AUDI T ( LOCAL AUTHORITIES) B i l l .
VALUATION AND RATING REFORM.
LEAKAGE OP SECRET INFORMATION.
(Appendix
(ii)
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
I)
C o m m i t t e e o f Home A f f a i r s 109,
M a r c h 30th, 1922 a t 4-15 p . m .
)
)
Bill.
held
on
SUPPLY AND TRANSPORT ORGANISATION.
SALMON AND FRESHWATER FISHERIES B I L L .
CANALS (CONTINUANCE OP CHARGING POWERS 1 B I L L .
CHILDREN OP UNMARRIED PARENTS B i l l .
POST OFFICE (PNEUMATIC TUBES ACQUISITION) B i l l .
CHAIRMAN OF FISHERY BOARD FOR SCOTLAND.
(Appendix 1 1 ^
(iii)
(1)
(2j
(3)
(4)
(5)
(6)
(7)
( 8)
C o m m i t t e e o f Home A f f a i r s 110,
A p r i l 4th, 1922 a t 4-15 p . m .
Whitehall
11th,
April
Gardens, S.W.,
1922.
on
CHILDREN OF UNMARRIED PARENTS B I L L .
WOOLWICH ARSENAL. SHORT T I M .
ALLOTMENTS B I L L .
EMPIRE SETTLEMENT B I L L .
AGEICULTURE HOLDINGS B I L L .
PREVENTION OF FRAUD (GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS) B I L L .
O i l IN NAVIGABLE WATERS B i l l .
UNIVERSITIES (SCOTLAND) B I I I , 19 2 2.
(Appendix
2,
held
III)
[This Document is the Property of His-Britannic Majesty's Government.]
Printed
for the Cabinet.
March
1922.
SECRET.
(Iq,
H.A.C. 1 0 8 t h C o n c l u s i o n s .
CABINET.
COMMITTEE
OF
HOME
AFFAIRS.
1 0 8 .
Conclusions of a Meeting of the above Committee, held in the Ministers'
Conference
Room, House of Commons, S.W., on Tuesday, March 2 1 , 1 9 2 2 , at 4 * 1 5 P.M.
Present :
The R i g h t Hon. H. A . L. FISHER, M.P., President of the Board of Education
(in the Chair).
The R i g h t Hon. E. SHOBTT, K . C . , M.P., J The R i g h t Hon. S i r ALFRED MOND, B a r t .
M.P., Minister of Health.
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for Home Affairs
The R i g h t Hon. R. MUNRO, K . C . , M.P.
S e c r e t a r y for Scotland.
Mr. LESLIE SCOTT, K . C . , M.P.,
General.
Solicitor-
Mr. E . HIXTON YOUNG, D . S . O . , M.P., Financial S e c r e t a r y , Treasury.
The following were also present :
S i r C. A . MONTAGUE BARLOW, K . B . E . ,
L L . D . , M.P., P a r l i a m e n t a r y S e c r e t a r y ,
M i n i s t r y of Labour.
S i r A . V . SYMONDS, K . C . B . , Second
S e c r e t a r y , M i n i s t r y of Health (for Con­
clusions 2 a n d 3).
S i r ALFRED WATSON, K . C . B . , Govern­
ment A c t u a r y (for Conclusion 2).
S i r WALTER KLNNEAR, K . B . E . , Controller
of Health Insurance (for Conclusion 2 ) .
Mr. W . M. GRAHAM-HARKISON, C.B., Second P a r l i a m e n t a r y Counsel
Mr. THOMAS JONES, Principal
Assistant
Mr. PEMBROKE WICKS, Secretary
[8105]
to the
Secretary,
Committee.
Cabinet.
Oxford and
S t Albans Wine
Privileges Bill.
ft
1. The Committee had before them a Memorandum b y t h e
Financial Secretary to t h e Treasury ( C P . 38-20) covering t h e draft of
i
rights and privileges of t h e City of Oxford
and of t h e City of St. A l b a n s in connection w i t h t h e sale of wine and
t h e granting of licences therefor.
I t appeared t h a t the privileges
enjoyed by these t w o cities precluded t h e l e v y of ordinary licence
duties. Both t h e Corporations had agreed t o t h e surrender of these
privileges and satisfactory terms of compensation had been arranged.
The abolition of t h e privileges and application of t h e ordinary l a w
would result in an increased revenue to t h e S t a t e .
The Committee a g r e e d —
B
m
t Q
a b o l i y h
c e r t a
n
To approve t h e Oxford and S t . A l b a n s W i n e Privileges
(Abolition) Bill and, subject to t h e consent of t h e W h i p s ,
to authorise i t s introduction in t h e House of Commons.
National Health
Insurance Bill.
2. The Committee had under consideration a Memorandum b y
fche
Minister of Health ( C P . 3838) covering a National H e a l t h
Insurance Bill. The Bill had been prepared as a result of t h e
endorsement by a Cabinet Committee of t h e £recommendation of t h e
Geddes Committee t h a t the burden of National Health Insurance
falling on the S t a t e should be reduced b y increasing t h e total contribu­
tions from employers and employed b y ^-d. per week in each case
( C P . 366(5, section 18).
The Minister of Health in his Memorandum stated t h a t , as a
result of a conference with t h e Consultative Council of A p p r o v e d
Societies, it had been agreed t h a t a n y increase a t present in t h e rates
of contribution would be seriously opposed. In view, however, of
t h e need for economy, t h e Council had proposed a scheme which
would g i v e substantial relief to t h e Exchequer w i t h o u t imposing
any additional contributions at t h e present time.
The amounts
in question are : —
(a.) 1,700,OOOL per annum, special g r a n t s t o w a r d s t h e cost of
medical benefit in excess of t h e s t a t u t o r y proportion of
two-ninths;
(b.) P a r t of the cost of t h e administration of medical benefit,
amounting to 100,000Z. per annum ;
(c.) The annual grant to t h e Women's Equalisation Fund,
amounting in t h e present y e a r to 350,000Z.
The Societies undertook to bear t h e whole of t h e cost of medical
benefit, now m e t out of special Exchequer grants, as from t h e
1st April, 1922, t o December 1923, when t h e present contract w i t h
the medical profession expires. The Societies further agreed to t h e
proposal t o abolish permanently t h e present annual g r a n t to t h e
W o m e n ' s Equalisation Fund.
A t t e n t i o n w a s d r a w n b y t h e Minister of Health in his Memo­
randum to clause 1 (2) of the draft Bill, which provides t h a t t h e
S t a t e grant of two-ninths, of which t h e Societies would be temporarily
deprived during t h e t w e n t y - o n e months to December 1923, shall be
credited t o each Society w i t h t h e accrued interest after t h e d a t e of
its n e x t valuation. The draft Bill does not apply t o Ireland, and
there are certain minor modifications t o m a k e it applicable to Scotland
and W a l e s .
The Minister of Health informed t h e Committee t h a t t h e scheme
had t h e support of t h e Approved Societies, the Insurance Companies,
and t h e Trade Unions, and t h a t t h e y doubtless hoped it would be
possible to reduce t h e remuneration of the doctors after December
1923, and thus make a demand for additional contributions unneces­
sary. W i t h regard t o t h e Women's Equalisation Fund, experience had
shown t h a t t h e incidence of women's sickness w a s less t h a n had been
anticipated and t h e Insurance funds could bear t h e risk w i t h o u t S t a t e
assistance.
The Government Actuary stated t h a t the Societies had carried
forwarded a substantial surplus at the last valuation, and were it not
for the present widespiead and prolonged unemployment there would
not be t h e slightest danger in shouldering the proposed burden.
In
a n y case he w a s prepared to advise t h a t t h e y could bear it.
The Financial
Secretary of the Treasury
pointed out t h a t t h e
scheme proposed, while securing at present the savings contemplated
b y the Geddes Committee, did so by a method which w a s not before
t h e Committee or t h e Cabinet and was a method which only g a v e
t e m p o r a r y relief to t h e Exchequer. To carry out the C a b i n e f s
decision it would be necessary to provide that, on t h e termination of
the scheme in December 1 9 2 3 , there would be no recourse to t h e
Treasury for fi esh grants. There were t w o sources from which t h e
money could be obtained : a reduction in t h e p a y m e n t s to the doctors
or t h e raising of contributions. He asked t h a t t h e Committee should
embody in t h e Bill t h e principle t h a t further g r a n t s from t h e
Treasury were barred. This would, he contended, g r e a t l y strengthen
t h e position of t h e Ministry of Health in dealing either w i t h the
doctors or the A p p r o v e d Societies. It could be done by repealing
Section ( 1 ) of the National Insurance A c t 1 9 1 3 (3 & 4 George V ,
c. 3 7 ) . (See Appendix.)
The Minister of Health explained t h a t the section referred to
had been expressly introduced owing to an agitation on t h e p a r t of
t h e medical profession in order to enable t h e Government to o n t r i ­
bute more than its proportion of two-ninths, and it had the effect of
giving a certain elasticity to the Minister in bargaining w i t h the
various interests involved. To t a k e a w a y the power now would be
to stir up afresh the controversy w i t h t h e doctors and to imperil t h e
whole scheme of medical service under t h e Act.
The Secretary for Scotland suggested t h a t it might be possible
to. review t h e situation a t a later period—before December 1923 —
but, inasmuch as t h e scheme had the support of t h e M i n i s t r y of
Health, t h e Board of Health and A p p r o v e d Societies, it ou^ht not
to be prejudiced in t h e w a y proposed by the Treasury, w i t h the
- certainty of provoking g r e a t hostility in t h e House.
The Financial
Secretary of the Treasury proposed, as an alter­
native method, t h a t t h e Bill should provide for t h e suspension of
Section ( l ) of t h e A c t of 1913 until P a r l i a m e n t otherwise determined.
The Committee a g r e e d —
(1.) That t h e scheme of the Minister of Health was t h e best
possible for securing the economies desired b y the Geddes
Committee, having regard to t h e difficulty of increasing
contributions.
(2.) That, inasmuch as t h e precise method of securing the savings
differed from t h a t endorsed by t h e Cabinet, the foregoing
Conclusion should be reported to the Cabinet for their
approval.
Audit (Local
Authorities) Bill.
3. The Committee had before them a Memorandum b y the
Minister of Health ( C P . 3 8 3 9 ; covering the draft of a Bill relating t o
t h e audit of the accounts of certain Local Authorities. The purpose
of t h e Bill was to enable R u r a l District Councils, Boards of Guardians
and Overseers, on the ground of economy, t o have a y e a r l y instead of
a half-yearly audit.
The Bill also provided a simple means of
enabling Borough Councils to have their books audited by G o v e r n ­
ment auditors instead of auditors appointed locally for t h e purpose,
should t h e y so desire. Borough Councils were a t present only able
t o obtain G o v e r n m e n t audit where their special A c t of P a r l i a m e n t
permitted it.
The Committee a g r e e d —
To approve t h e A u d i t (Local Authorities) Bill, and to authorise
the Minister of Health to arrange for its introduction in
Parliament.
Valuation and
Rating Reform.
4. W i t h reference t o H.A.C. 107, Conclusion 1, the Chairman
stated t h a t he had seen the Lord P r i v y Seal on t h e subject of the
proposed Bill to give effect, to the recommendations of t h e Committee
on Valuation and B a t i n g Beform.
The Lord P r i v y Seal was of
opinion t h a t , having regard to the congestion of business, it would
be quite impossible to get such a Bill "through Parliament in t h e
current session, and was, therefore, unwilling to burden the Govern­
ment Draftsmen with the preparation of so complicated a measure.
The Minister of Health stated that, on the other hand, he had
discussed the m a t t e r with t h e Minister of Agriculture. He under­
stood t h a t negotiations were in progress with the Treasury and t h a t
the Chancellor of the Exchequer was anxious, by means of a new
Valuation Bill, to come to the assistance of agriculture.
That
aspect, he imagined, had not been presented to t h e Lord P r i v y Seal,,
and on t h a t ground the matter would require further consideration.
A f t e r some discussion the Committee agreed—
That it was impossible for them to form an opinion on the
m a t t e r until t h e Chancellor of the E x c h e q u e r s new
proposals were before them.
Leakage of Secret
Information.
5. The Chairman stated that his attention had been drawn by
the Secretary to a reference in the press to a recent discussion before
the Home Affairs Committee of a Bill relating to Motor Legislation,
He had drawn t h e attention of the D e p a r t m e n t concerned to the
matter, and on investigation it was discovered t h a t the information
had been given b y an official to the press, who had not realised t h a t
in doing so he was disclosing information of a confidential character.
Steps would be taken to prevent such leakage in future.
2, Whitehall Gardens, S.W.
March 22, 1922.
1,
APPENDIX.
National
Insurance
Act, 1 9 1 3 .
(3 & 4 Geo. V , cap. 37.)
Provision
of Additional
Money by Parliament
(1 & 2 Geo. V, cap. 55).
1.—(1.) In addition to the moneys which under P a r t I of t h e National Insurance
Act, 1911 (in this A c t referred t o as the " principal A c t " ) , are required to b e
contributed out of moneys provided by P a r l i a m e n t towards defraying t h e cost of any
of the benefits conferred by P a r t I of t h a t A c t or the expenses of administration of
any of those benefits or otherwise for t h e purposes of t h a t A c t , there shall be contributed
out of moneys provided by Parliament t o w a r d s such costs, expenses and purposes,
such additional sums as Parliament may from time to time determine, and t h e provisions
of the principal A c t as to the manner in which the cost of benefits and t h e expenses of
administration are to be defrayed shall be construed as applying only to t h e balance
of such cost and expenses after such additional sums have been applied for t h e purposes
for which t h e y have been provided.
(2.) A n y additional sums so contributed for the purpose of medical benefit shall be
auplicable towards t h e payment of medical attendance and t r e a t m e n t of members of
societies who are not insured jDersons mentioned in paragraph (e) of sub-section (2) o f
section 15 of the principal A c t as amended by this A c t (a) in like manner and to t h e
like extent as if such medical attendance and treatment were medical benefit.
o
[This Document:'.ur'i^'e"Property 6i"His"Britannic' Majestys Government,j
Printed
for the Cabinet.
April
1922.
SECRET.
(H.A.C. 1 0 9 t h C o n c l u s i o n s . )
CABINET.
COMMITTEE
OF
HOME
AFFAIRS,
109.
Conclusions of a Meeting of the above Committee held in the Ministers' Conference
House of Commons, S.W., on Thursday, March 3 0 , 1922, at 4 - 1 5 P.M.
Room,
Present :
The R i g h t Hon. H. A . L. FISHER, M.P., President of the Board of Education
(in the Cha,ir).
The R i g h t Hon. E. SHORTT, K . C . , M.P.,
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for Home Affairs.
The R i g h t Hon.
S. BALDWIN,
President of t h e Board of Trade.
The R i g h t Hon. S i r A. MOND, Bart., M.P.,Minister of Health.
The
Right
Hon. S i r A. GRIFFITHBOSCAWEN, M.P., Minister of A g r i ­
culture and Fisheries.
The R i g h t Hon. R. MUNBO, K . C . , M.P.,
Secretary for Scotland.
M.P.,
The R i g h t Hon. S i r E. POLLOCK, K . B . E . ,
K . C . , M.P., A t t o r n e y - G e n e r a l .
The R i g h t Hon. the EARL OF CRAWFORD
AND BALCARRES, K.T., F i r s t
Corn­
missioner,
His
Majesty's
Office of
Works.
Mr. LESLIE SCOTT, K . C . , M.P., SolicitorGeneral.
Mr. HILTON YOUNG, D.S.O., M.P., Finan­
cial Secretary, Treasury.
The following were also present
The Right Hon. the EARL OF ANCASTER,
P a r l i a m e n t a r y S e c r e t a r y and Deputy
Minister of Fisheries.
(For Conclu­
sion 2.)
Mr. L. S. AMERY, M.P., P a r l i a m e n t a r y and
Financial Secretary, A d m i r a l t y [Chief
Civil Commissioner]. (For Conclusion 1.)
The R i g h t Hon. H. PIKE PEASE, M.P.,
Assistant Postmaster - General.
(For
Conclusion 5.)
Mr. A. NEAL, M.P., P a r l i a m e n t a r y S e c r e ­
tary, Ministry of Transport.
(For Con­
clusions 1 and 3.)
Mr. H. J . WILSON, C.B., C.B.E., S e c r e t a r y ,
Ministry of Labour.
Lieutenant-Colonel G. C. GRAZEBROOK,
.C.M.G., D.S.O., W a r Office.
(For Con­
clusion 1.)
Mr. C. F. ROUNDELL, C.B.E., S u p p l y
Department [Ministry of Health]. ( F o r
Conclusion 1.)
The Hon. HUGH GODLEY, Third
m e n t a r y Counsel.
Mr. H. G. MAURICE, C.B., Ministry of A g r i ­
culture. ( F o r Conclusion 2.)
Major M. BROWNE, W a r Office.
clusion 1.)
Mr. L. F. C. MACLEAN, Food Department,
Board of Trade. (For Conclusion 1.)
Mr. T. E. PRYCE-TANNATT, M i n i s t r y
Agriculture.
( F o r Conclusion 2.)
Mr. PEMBROKE WICKS, Secreta,ry
to the
Committee.
Parlia­
(For Con­
of
1. W i t h reference to H.A.G. 1 0 1 , the Committee had before
them a Report of the Executive Sub-Committee of the S u p p l y and
Transport Committee ( C P . 3 8 0 0 ) , containing a scheme which could
be carried out in the event of an emergency arising, and recom­
mending the nucleus organisation to be retained at an estimated cost
of 1,750/. (first year 1,900/.). It was recommended that the trades
and local authorities should be responsible for the maintenance of
all local services, and that the G o v e r n m e n t should only assist in the
case of certain special services indicated in the Report, and then
only when the trade or local authorities were unable to deal w i t h the
situation.
It was proposed that the S u p p l y and T r a n s p o r t Sub-Committee
should continue in existence, and that the Chairman should be
nominated from time to time by the Cabinet Minister in charge of
the emergency organisation (at present the Home Secretary), that it
should meet at least every six months to review the organisation,
and that the general lines of the organisation should continue, viz.,
a series of Sub-Committees responsible for the various sections of
the scheme. It was recommended that any expenditure on account
of the nucleus organisation should be borne on the votes of the
Departments concerned, and that any expenses which would not
naturally fall on the vote of an individual Department should be
charged to the Home Office vote.
The Parliamentary
Secretary
to the Ministry
of
Transport
stated that the President of the Board of Trade had appointed an
official to see that the nucleus organisation was kept constantly
under review. The scheme would be based on the Civil Com­
missioners.
The Chief Officer of the Civil Commissioners had been, and
would continue to be, a General Inspector of the Ministry of
Health. Some danger of publicity could not be avoided owing to
the necessity of keeping in touch with the Chairmen of the Local
Volunteer Organisations. The Executive Sub-Committee of the
Supply and Transport Committee could no longer retain its name if
the parent Committee had ceased to exist. W a s it intended to keep
til at alive ?
The Ghairjnan
referred to Decision (7) of H.A.C. 1 0 1 , from
which it was plain that the S u p p l y and Transport Committee
remained in existence and that the Home Secretary was responsible
for calling it together pending further consideration of. the matter.
w
The Parliamentary
Secretary
to the Ministry
of
Transport,
continuing, stated that it was proposed that a responsible officer
should be selected from each of the following Departments to deal
with emergency matters : —
Home Office.
Ministry of Transport.
Supply Department [Department of
Commissioner].
Treasury.
Mines Department.
Ministry of Health.
Admiralty.
W a r Office.
A i r Ministry.
Petroleum Department.
Office of W o r k s .
Board of Trade (Food Department).
Chief
Civil
There had been some danger of mistakes in the past o w i n g to
the fact that the same persons had not a l w a y s attended the
Sub-Committee. It w^as essential that those p r e s e n t at the meetings
of the Sub-Committee should be the officials actually responsible.
9
The Secretary
for Scotland
d r e w attention to the special
a r r a n g e m e n t s which had been made w i t h his approval for a separate
organisation for Scotland.
O.
Major Grazebrook, on behalf of the W a r Office, stated that t h e
A r m y Council desired to d r a w the attention of t h e Home Affairs
Committee to the fact that, owing to the recent reductions, there
would not be enough military transport to move troops in the event
of the r a i l w a y s failing. He handed a Memorandum to the S e c r e t a r y
of the Committee.
T h e Home Affairs Committee a g r e e d —
(I.) To approve the scheme submitted by the Executive S u b Committeo of the S u p p l y and Transport Committee.
(2.) To request the S e c r e t a r y to draw the attentiou of t h e
Executive Sub-Committee to the representations m a d e
b y the A r m y Council on the question of military
transport.
Salmon and
Pill
" "
'
Fisheries'
2. W i t h reference to H.A.C. 92, Conclusion (4), the Committee
k ^ before them a Memorandum b y the Minister of A g r i c u l t u r e and
Fisheries covering a draft of a Bill to Consolidate and A m e n d t h e
Enactments relating to Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries in E n g l a n d
and W a l e s ( C . P . - 3 8 0 2 ) . The Bill had been discussed w i t h r e p r e ­
sentatives of A n g l i n g Associations, and was expected to b e
substantially a n agreed measure. It had been introduced in t h e
preceding session, as directed by the Home Affairs Committee, for
the purpose of inviting public discussion, and had since been
a m e n d e d as thought desirable. U n d e r Clause 5 4 it was proposed
to give to Fishery Boards, for the protection of fisheries in t h e i r
districts, the same powers as a sanitary authority to institute
proceedings under the R i v e r s Pollution Prevention Acts.
At
present proceedings might only be instituted on the grounds of
public health, and not on the grounds of damage to fish. It w a s
stated that the provisions for the prevention of pollution would
apply to pollution by tar from roads which had been laid b y local
authorities.
Attention was d r a w n to the v e r y drastic provisions contained
in "Clause 1 of the Bill, relating to penalties for t h r o w i n g stones at
fish and using lights at night for the purpose of facilitating c a p t u r e
of fish, p a r t i c u l a r l y h a v i n g r e g a r d to Sub-Clause 1 ( 2 ) , u n d e r which
a person would be presumed to be guilty of an offence against the
A c t unless he could p r o v e that the acts alleged against him w e r e
done for the purpose of the preservation or development of a p r i v a t e
fishery.
It was suggested that the effect of the Clause m i g h t be to
secure the conviction of innocent persons w h o had not been guilty
of poaching or any real offence.
aC
The Minister of Agriculture
and Fisheries
stated that it w a s
proposed to introduce the Bill in the House of L o r d s , and that fie
would h a v e no objection to'considerable ameuclment in the course
of debate.
The Home Affairs Committee a g r e e d —
1. To approve the draft Bill and to authorise its introduction
in the House of Lords.
2. To request the Minister of A g r i c u l t u r e to re-examine Clause 1
of the Bill in the l i g h t of the above discussion.
Canals
(Continuance of
Charging Powers)
3 W i t h reference to H.A.C. 9 9 , Conclusion (1), t h e Committee
had u n d e r consideration a Memorandum by the Minister of
Transport i C P . 3238), and a Memorandum b y the P a r l i a m e n t a r y
Secretary to the Ministry of Transport ( C P . 3 8 3 5 ) , covering t h e
2
draft of a Bill for "the Continuance of C h a r g i n g Powers in respect
of Canal Undertakings of which possession was taken by the
Ministry of T r a n s p o r t u n d e r " T h e Ministry of Transport Act,
1 9 1 9 . " It was proposed in the Bill that the increased charging
powers should be continued until February 1 9 2 4 .
The Committee agreed : —
" To approve the draft Bill and to authorise the P a r l i a m e n t a r y
Secretary to the Ministry of Transport to a r r a n g e for its
its introduction in Parliament, subject to the consent, of
the G o v e r n m e n t W h i p s . "
4. W i t h reference to II. A.C. 103, Conclusion (3), the Committee
had under consideration a Memorandum by the Home Secretary
( C P . 3 8 4 6 ) , covering draft clauses of a Bill which had been
prepared in aceoi-dance with the directions of the Committee,
providing for legitimation by subsequent marriage.
Alternative draft clauses were submitted, it being assumed
under one that titles and dignities would not be affected by
legitimation, and under the other that they would be affected.
The Private Member's Bill introduced in the House of Commons
d u r i n g the preceding session by Captain Bo wye r had been followed
on two points : —
(1.) The Bill w a s not restricted to persons who w e r e legally
capable of m a r r y i n g at the time when the child was
born, therein differing from the law of Scotland ;
(2.) Legitimation would only relate to marriages t a k i n g place
after the change of law, although children born before
the passing of the Bill would be legitimated if their
parents married after the Bill became law.
There were also various difficult technical questions arising on
the Bill relating to settled property and other legal matters.
The Secretary for Scotland pointed, out that u n d e r Scottish law
it was not necessary for parents to have continued free to marry,
provided they had been legally capable of m a r r i a g e at the time of
the conception and birth of the child.
The Attorney-General
drew attention to t h e fact that the Bill as
at present d r a w n applied to the child of a married man born in
adultery.
The Committee were divided on the question w h e t h e r such a
proposition could be entertained.
It w^as held, on the one hand,
that public opinion would not tolerate such a proposal. It was felt,
on the other hand, that the interests of the child w e r e the only real
consideration, and that on that ground the proposal should, stand.
The Attorney-General
asked the Committee to consider w h e t h e r
it was necessary to h a v e the Bill at all. In t h e preceding Session
Captain BowyeFs Bill had received only cursory consideration in
Committee in the House of Commons, and he questioned whether
there was any real demand for it. Were it made a G o v e r n m e n t
measure there would no doubt be strong protests.
The Chairman stated that before the Committee could come to
a decision they must k n o w to what extent t h e G o v e r n m e n t were
pledged by the Home S e c r e t a r y ^ speech in the House of Commons
d u r i n g the debate on Captain B o w y e F s Bill.
The question was raised whether the Cabinet had g i v e n a n y
direction in r e g a r d to this Bill.
"With reference to Cabinet 8 8 ( 2 1 ) , Conclusion (7), the Secretary
reported that the Cabinet had requested the Home Affairs Committee
to consider and advise upon certain P r i v a t e Members' Bills which
were being pressed hy the advocates of the Women's Movement in
the House of Commons, viz., the Guardianship of Infants Bill and
the Criminal L a w A m e n d m e n t Bill. On enq uiry at the Home Office
he had been informed that the C h i l d r e n of U n m a r r i e d P a r e n t s
Bill should be included among the measures thus referred to the
Committee.
Attention w a s drawn to the g r e a t opposition that would be
received in the House of L o r d s if it w e r e attempted to make
legitimation effective for the purpose of succession to titles and
dignities, and the suggestion w a s made that for that purpose legiti­
mated children should be deemed the youngest.
It appeared that those m e m b e r s of the Committee who w e r e
supporting the Bill, sooner than lose the whole Bill, would be
prepared to w a i v e the question of succession to titles, and to
assimilate the law to Scottish law, so that legitimation would only be
effected if parents had been free to m a r r y at the time of the concep­
tion and birth of t h e child.
The First
Commissioner
of Works stated that unless the
Government had been actually pledged by the Home Secretary's
statement he could not support the Bill.
The Attorney-General
stated that, while h e would not oppose on
the broad question of legitimising children, he felt strongly that
exceedingly complicated legal questions w o u l d arise, and was v e r y
loath to g i v e his support for that reason.
The Solicitor-General,
while admitting the legal difficulties, was
prepared to support the Bill on the ground that the children must
be the first consideration, but thought that the best plan tactically
was to adopt Scottish law.
The Committee a g r e e d —
To adjourn the consideration of the question to the following
meeting i n order that in the interval it might be determined
to what extent the Home Secretary had pledged the
Government.
Post Office
(Pneumatic Tubes
. cquisition) )i .
5^ The Committee had u n d e r consideration a Memorandum by
p t m a s t e r - G e n e r a l ( C P . 3 8 2 3 ) covering a draft of a Bill to
confirm an agreement between the Pneumatic Despatch Company
and the Postmaster-General for the acquisition by the latter of a
disused U n d e r g r o u n d Tube r u n n i n g from the General Post Office to
a point near the N o r t h - W e s t e r n District Office.
Without legislation
it was doubtful whether the Pneumatic Despatch Company, u n d e r
their special A c t of Parliament, had power to sell or the PostmasterGeneral power to buy. The C o m p a n y had accepted a n offer of
£ 7 , 5 0 0 . The s a v i n g to the Exchequer which would result from
lajdng telephone cables in this T u b e would be £ 4 0 , 0 0 0 .
The Committee a g r e e d —
t
h
e
QS
To approve the draft Bill and to authorise the PostmasterGeneral to arrange for its introduction in the House of
Commons sxibject to the consent of the G o v e r n m e n t
Whips.
Chairman of
Scotland
1
t
6. The Committee had under consideration a Memorandum b y
7
Scotland ( C P . 3 8 4 0 ) to make provision w i t h
respect to the tenure of office by the C h a i r m a n of the F i s h e r y
Board for Scotland, in which it was proposed to. make the office of
Chairman of the F i s h e r y Board a n ordinary Civil S e r v i c e post,
instead of one to which the holder is appointed for five y e a r s .
The Committee a g r e e d —
h
e
S e c r e t a i
f o r
To approve the draft Bill and to authorise the Secretary f o r
Scotland to a r r a n g e for its introduction in Parliament.
2, Whitehall Gardens, S.W.
March 3 0 , 1 9 2 2 .
1,
o
(f^
[This Document is tHe "Frbperly' of"His 3iit£ffiliiC'-'Majesty's G ovemment.]
v,
Printed
for the Cabinet.
April
l'J-2.
SECRET.
H.A.C. 1 1 0 t h Conclusions.
CABINET.
nAifji-TTTiwu
1
op
"[TOM!?
a i?!? a 7 do
tir\
Conclusions
of a Meeting of the above Committee, held in the Ministers'
Conference
Boom, House of Coimnons, S.W., on Tuesday, April -1, 1922, at 4 T 5 P.M.
Present :
The R i g h t Hon. H. A . L. FISHER, M.P., President of the Board of Education
(in the Chair).
The R i g h t Hon. E. SHORTT, K . C . , M.P.,
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for Home Affairs.
The R i g h t Hon. S. BALDWIN, M.P., P r e sident of t h e Board of Trade.
The R i g h t Hon. S i r ALFRED MOND, B a r t . ,
M.P., Minister of Health.
The R i g h t Hon. S i r GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN.
M.P.,
Minister of A g r i c u l t u r e
and
Fisheries.
The R i g h t Hon. R. MUNRO, K . C . , M . P . ,
S e c r e t a r y for Scotland.
The R i g h t Hon. F . G. KELLAWAY, M.P.,
Postmaster-General.
Sir LESLIE SCOTT, K . C . , M.P.,
Solicitor-General.
The following were also present
The R i g h t Hon. t h e EARL OF ANCASTER,
P a r l i a m e n t a r y S e c r e t a r y and D e p u t y
Minister of Fisheries. (For Conclusions
3 and 5.)
Lieutenant-Colonel Sir R. A. SANDERS,
Bart., M.P., U n d e r - S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e ,
W a r Office.
(For Conclusion 6.)
Mr. L. S. AMERY, M.P., P a r l i a m e n t a r y
and
Financial
Secretary,
Admiralty
(Civil Commissioner).
(For
Conclu­
\ sion^ 4.)
Lieutenant-Colonel the Hon. G . F . STANLEY,
C.M.G., M.P., Financial S e c r e t a r y , W a r
Office.
(For Conclusion 2.)
S i r FRANCIS FLOUD, K . C . B . , P e r m a n e n t
S e c r e t a r y , Ministry of A g r i c u l t u r e and
Fisheries. (For Conclusions 3 and 5.)
The Hon. HUGH GODLEY, Third
m e n t a r y Counsel.
Mr. H. J . WILSON, C.B., C.B.E., S e c r e t a r y ,
M i n i s t r y of Labour. . (For Conclusions
2 and 4.)
Mr.
R. S. METKLEJOHN, C.B., D e p u t y
Controller of Supply Services, Treasury.
Parlia-
Mi\ A . MAXWELL, P r i v a t e S e c r e t a r y , Home
Office. (For Conclusion 1.)
elm
T HOMAS JONES, Principal
Mr. R. B. HOWORTH, Acting
Assistant
Secretary
Secretary.
to the Committee.
Children of
Unmarried Parents
1. W i t h reference to H.A.C. 109, Conclusion 4, the Committee
further considered t h e question of a Bill to deal with legitimation by
subsequent marriage, and had before them a memorandum by the
Home S e c r e t a r y ( C P . 3 8 4 6 ) .
The Home Secretary gave an account of the position t a k e n up
by the Government in the House of Commons in r e g a r d to proposals
for a Bill, and in particular to the following question and answer
given on the 14th F e b r u a r y : —
" Mr. N Chamberlain asked the Home S e c r e t a r y whether
he has considered the recommendations of t h e Departmental
Committee on Child Adoption, presided over by Sir Alfred
Hopkinson, K . C . ; and whether he proposes to introduce any
legislation upon the subject in the course of the present
Session ?
" Mr. Shortt: I hope a Bill m a y be inti-oduced to give effect
to the Committee's recommendation as to the legitimation of
children by the subsequent marriage of their parents ; but there
appear to be v e r y g r e a t difficulties in the w a y of carrying out
the proposal for the legalisation of adoption."
In the course of the discussion it was stated t h a t there w a s a
demand on the part of women's organisations especially for this Bill,
as it would remove a stigma which, in the opinion of many, rested
unfairly on the children in question, and it was generally a g r e e d to
be undesirable to leave a Bill which raised so m a n y complicated legal
issues to a private member ; on the other hand, in order to mitigate
opposition the scope of any Bill for which the Government made
itself responsible should be restricted to the narrowest limits, and
should broadly aim at bringing the law of England into harmony
with t h a t of Scotland.
The Committee agreed—
That a Bill should be drafted on the lines indicated above by
the Home Secretary, in consultation with the L a w Officers,
for consideration by the Committee.
Woolwich Arsenal.
Short Time.
2. The Financial
Secretary
to the War Office informed the
Home Affairs Committee t h a t a demand had been made by t h e Shop
S t e w a r d s a t Woolwich Arsenal t h a t short time should cease, and
t h a t full time should be worked. If this were done it would be
necessary to discharge 1.500 men. who could be retained if t h e
present short-time arrangements were continued.
The Committee agreed—
That the existing short-time arrangements should remain
force.
Allotments Bill.
in
3. The Home Affairs Committee had under consideration a
Memorandum by t h e Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries ( C P . 3910),
covering t h e draft Allotments Bill.
The Minister of Agriculture
and Fisheries, stated t h a t this Bill
had been promised in t h e , King's^Speech,, and was based on the
unanimous report of t h e Departmental Committee on A l l o t m e n t s ,
which had been appointed jointly b y t h e Secretary for Scotland and
himself. The Committee had comprised representatives of the
Local Authorities and of the allotment holders. H a v i n g regard to
the v e r y g r e a t extension a t present of the cultivation of allotments
as compared with the pre-war state of affairs, it w a s most important
that the existing powers respecting the acquisition of land, & c ,
should be maintained,-and in some directions strengthened, if t h e
present number of allotments was not to be seriously diminished.
The t w o main features of the Bill dealt with t h e easy acquisition,
of land and security of tenure. I n particular, it w a s necessary t o
provide that t h e allotment holder should n o t be deprived of his land
during t h e cropping season.
On t h e other hand, he was t o be
compensated only in respect of crops on t h e ground and manure put
into t h e ground since the last crop, b u t he was t o receive no com­
pensation for labour applied since the last crop or for disturbance,
under " The Agricultural A c t , 1920."
W i t h regard to the acquisition of land, t h e Committee were
reminded t h a t during the w a r much vacant land in urban areas had
been taken over under D.O.B.A. powers, and, in t h e absence o f
further legislation, this land would be handed back to the owners on
or before the 31st March, 1923. The Bill proposed t o confer upon
Local Authorities the powers of entering upon vacant land, including
a n y vacant land which has been t a k e n by the Ministry under D.O.R. A.
during t h e w a r , but the provision had been inserted to secure t h a t an
owner could resume possession on giving one month's notice if the land
was reasonably required for any other purpose than agriculture. Under
Clause 4 an allotment authority could continue for one y e a r from
August 1922 t o make orders for t h e compulsory acquisition of land
without t h e delay and expense of obtaining confirmation by the
Minister. Clause 7 limited t h e obligation of borough and urban
authorities t o provide allotments to t h e provision of allotment gardens
not exceeding 20 poles ; while Clause 8 required allotment authorities
in boroughs or urban districts t o maintain, unless exempted by the
Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries, A l l o t m e n t Committees, coin­
prising a substantial portion of co-opted members representative
of allotment holders. Clause 10 provided' t h a t a local authority,
owning its own trams or "buses, could give facilities to allotment
holders to get to their allotments, t h u s enabling cheaper land to be
provided ; and Clause I I maintained the principle t h a t t h e allotments
undertaking of an authority' is to be self-supporting, subject to certain
particularised exceptions. Clause 14 dealt w i t h a special difficulty
which had arisen in t h e New Forest, and t h e effect of the Clause
would be that, while the owners and t h e public would lose nothing
which t h e y a t present enjoyed, no additional land would be devoted
to t h e cultivation of allotments in t h e Forest.
O
-
The Secretary for Scotland s t a t e d that t h e proposals in t h e Bill
closely followed t h e recommendations of Lord AncasteFs Committee.
On behalf of Scotland, he wished to t h a n k Lord Ancaster and the
Committee for t h e v e r y valuable w o r k which had been done. He
bad convinced t h e Leader of t h e House t h a t it would be necessary
to have a separate Bill dealing w i t h t h e Scottish aspect of t h e
al lotments question.
The Minister
of Health
drew attention to certain drafting
alterations in Ciause 1 (b) of t h e Bill.
The Committee agreed—
To approve the draft A l l o t m e n t s Bill subject t o t h e drafting
amendments' necessary to meet t h e points raised b y t h e
Minister of Health, and to authorise t h e introduction of t h e
Bill in t h e House of Lords.
Empire Settlement
Bill.
4. The Committee had under consideration a Memorandum by
the Chancellor of t h e Exchequer ( O P . 3919) on t h e subject of t h e
Empire S e t t l e m e n t proposals, a n d also copies of the draft Empire
S e t t l e m e n t Bill ( C P . 3922).
The Parliamentary
Secretary
to the Admiralty
informed t h e
Home Affairs Committee t h a i the Cabinet h a d referred t h e question
of t h e provision to be made for Empire S e t t l e m e n t t o a, Cabinet
Committee presided over by the Chancellor of t h e Exchequer, which
Commit Use had fixed t h e maximum annual amount t o be found b y
t h e Exchequer at £ 1 , 5 0 0 , 0 0 0 for the current financial year and
£ 3 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0 in subsequent years, with a definite time limit of fifteen
years. A s it w a s v e r y desirable to introduce t h e Bill before Easter,
he had obtained the leave of the Leader of t h e House to bring t h e
question before the Home Affairs Committee instead of to t h e
Cabinet. The financial provisions in t h e Bill had been accepted b y
the Treasury.
The Committee agreed—To approve the Empire S e t t l e m e n t Bill ( C P . 3 9 2 2 ) and
authorise its immediate introduction in t h e House
Commons.
Agricultural
Holdings Bill.
to
of
5. The Home Affairs Committee had under consideration a
Memorandum ( C P . 3 9 1 8 ) by t h e Minister of A g r i c u l t u r e and
Fisheries relative to the consolidation of t h e enactments relating t o
agricultural holdings in England and W a l e s and in Scotland
respectively, and stating t h a t a Bill for this purpose relating to
Scotland had already been introduced. A s the Bill w a s purely a
consolidating measure and involved no alteration in the existing l a w
it w a s not proposed to circulate a draft of t h e Bill to the Committee.
The Committee a g r e e d —
To approve the introduction in the House of Lords of t h e
proposed Agricultural Holdings Bill.
Prevention of
Fraud (Government
Contracts) Bill.
6. The Home Affairs Committee had under consideration a
Memorandum by the S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for W a r ( C P . 3791) covering t h e draft of the P r e v e n t i o n of F r a u d (Government Contracts)
Bill.
A f t e r some discussion had taken place as to t h e precise need for
this Bill t h e Committee agreed—­
(1.) To adjourn the further consideration of the S e c r e t a r y of
S t a t e for W a r s Memorandum until a future meeting.
(2.) To request the Solicitor-General to discuss t h e scope and
object of the Bill w i t h Mr. G u y Stephenson, an A s s i s t a n t
Director of Public Prosecutions. Mr, Stephenson t o be
invited to attend the Committee on the occasion when
the subject w a s n e x t under discussion.
Oil in Navigable
Waters Bill.
7. The t l o m e Affairs Committee had under consideration a
Memorandum by the President of t h e Board of Trade ( C P . 3871)
covering t h e draft Oil in Navigable W a t e r s Bill.
The President of the Board of Trade informed the Committee
t h a t this Bill was designed to meet a groWintr evil and t h a t it
represented an agreement reached by all t h e interests concerned.
U n d e r Clause I it would in f u t u r e be an offence to discharge oil or
allow oil to escape into a n y w a t e r s t o which t h e A c t applied.
He
did not anticipate t h a t t h e r e would be any opposition to t h e Bill.
A f t e r t h e Home Secretary had raised certain points on Clause 7
of the Bill, t h e Committee agreed—
(1.) To approve the Oil in Navigable W a t e r s Bill subject to
the settlement of a n y points of detail on Clause 7 b y the
Home S e c r e t a r y and t h e President of the Board of Trade
in consultation.
( 2 . ) To authorise t h e President of t h e Board of Trade to
introduce the Biil after obtaining the concurrence of t h e
Government W h i p s .
Universities
^Scotland Bill),
19-^2.
8. The Home Affairs Committee h a d under consideration a
Memorandum ( C P . 3 8 8 5 ) b y the Secretary for Scotland covering the
draft of a Bill approved b y the four Scottish Universities to confer
powers upon t h e U n i v e r s i t y Courts with regard to age limitations
and superannuation in t h e case of principals and professors and with
regard to t h e admission of Lecturers and Readers to t h e Senatus
Academicus, and also t o provide for t h e admission ex officio of
Lecturers and Readers to t h e General Councils of t h e Universities.
The Committee were informed t h a t t h e Bill would be non­
contentious and would involve no charge on public funds.
The Committee a g r e e d —
To approve t h e draft Universities (Scotland) Bill, 1922, and to
authorise t h e S e c r e t a r y for Scotland to arrange with the
Government W h i p s for its introduction.
2, Whitehall
April
Gardens,
5, 1 9 2 2 .
S.W.,