THE LORD CHANCELLOR’S ADVISORY COUNCIL ON
NATIONAL RECORDS AND ARCHIVES
Date:
Time:
Venue:
14 May 2015
12:00 - 17:00
The British Library
Chair:
The Master of the Rolls
Minutes:
Beth Watson - Advisory Council Secretariat
Members:
Ms Hilary Bauer
Professor Rodney Brazier
Mr John Collins
Mr John Evans
Ms Lesley Ferguson
Mr Stephen Hawker
Mr Graeme Herd
Mr John Millen
Dr Elizabeth Lomas
Professor Arthur Lucas (items 1-6)
Dr William Peace
Sir John Ramsden
Mr Michael Smyth
Mr Trevor Woolley
Non-members: Mr Jeff James, Chief Executive, The National Archives
Ms Carol Tullo, Director, Information Policy and Services, The National Archives
Mr Stuart Abraham, Information and Legislative Policy Manager, The National
Archives
Ms Helen Potter, Acting FOI Centre Manager, The National Archives
Ms Victoria Davis, Access at Transfer Manager, The National Archives
Mr Sam Whaley, Acting Head of the Chief Executive’s Office, The National
Archives
Ms Lucy Fletcher, Senior Government Relations Manager, The National Archives
Ms Trish Humphries, Secretary to the Forum on Historical Manuscripts and
Research
Mr Peter Farr, Private Secretary to the Master of the Rolls
Items 1-4
Dr Ian Mortimer, member of the Forum on Historical Manuscripts and Academic
Research
Dr Christopher Ridgeway, member of the Forum on Historical Manuscripts and
Academic Research
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1. Welcome, apologies and introductions
1.1 The Chairman welcomed Dr Mortimer and Dr Ridgeway to the meeting.
1.2 Apologies of absence were received from Ms Sarah Fahy and Dr Bendor Grosvenor.
1.3 Mr James informed members that The National Archives’ Information Policy and Services
Directorate (IPS) was undergoing a reorganisation. Although he would be taking up a new post
within IPS, Mr Abraham would continue to attend Council meetings to provide expert advice.
2. Digital Transfer Project
Caroline Pegden, Head of Programmes at The National Archives, gave a presentation on The
National Archives’ Digital Transfer Project. She explained that the project aimed to develop an
operationally proven, scalable and repeatable digital transfer process, from appraisal and selection at
the government departments through to transfer at The National Archives.
In a series of pilot projects her team has worked with a number of departments on the review and
transfer of discrete sets of their records. The team had also begun trialling software. Members asked
if the pilot studies were scalable. Ms Pegden explained that they had purposely started with small
sets of records that would permit a file by file examination and had been able to gain valuable insights
into the digital review process by doing so. They asked if the lessons learned during the pilots would
be used to inform future guidance on how to create metadata. Ms Pegden agreed that they would,
both at the creation of a file and at the transfer phase.
Ms Pegden said that she would like to set up a working group with representatives from the Advisory
Council, The National Archives and other government departments to develop new ways of working
which guarantee the same level of scrutiny as currently while dealing with greater volumes of
material.
3. Communications Working Group and Annual Report
3.1 The Advisory Council Homepage
Members considered the redrafted text for the Council’s home page. They were content to agree the
new content, subject to some minor rewording to make clear the function of FOI Panels and to
include reference to the Keeper’s role as Historical Manuscripts Commissioner appointed under
Royal Warrant.
3.2 The Annual Report
Members asked if a table could be added that set out the number of closure and retention
applications considered, the number queried and the outcomes. If figures over the last three years
were available, these should also be included as should the total number of records accessioned by
The National Archives as this would help to demonstrate that the vast majority of records are
transferred open. This should be accompanied by a more detailed explanation of why the Council
queried only a small number of applications, including reference to the improved quality of the
applications received by departments and the trend for them, encouraged by the Council, to consider
redaction rather than complete closure. They also asked for more detail to be provided about the
Council’s interaction with departments.
4. Minutes and Matters Arising
4.1 The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed as an accurate record.
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4.2 Mr Millen provided an update on the meeting on 16 April between the FCO and members of the
Council.
5. Matters arising from the closure and retention schedules – February 2015
Members were updated on queries raised at the previous meeting relating to applications for public
records designated as closed or retained.
6. HM Treasury
HM Treasury’s Departmental Records Officer presented the revised the timetable for its transfer
programme which addressed the issues that the Advisory Council had raised with him at its February
meeting. The Council were content to recommend that HM Treasury be given permission to retain its
records for 12 months, but asked that they return in 2016 to provide an update on progress.
7. FOI Panels
Members considered proposals to improve the operation of the FOI panels. These included the
introduction of drop-in sessions for members to talk through concerns raised by particular cases with
the FOI team, and for there to be standing item at quarterly meetings to ensure that all members
could be made aware of any wider issues.
8. Access to Public Records
8.1 Applications for closure – 14 May 2015
The Advisory Council considered the applications for the closure of records. Those that were not
subject to queries were approved.
8.2 Personal information: a guide for justification wording
Members were content with the revised guidance to departments on the wording for justifications for
closing records containing personal information. They agreed that it should be published.
8.3 Access to public records; applications for retention – 14 May 2015
The Advisory Council considered the applications for the retention of records. Those that were not
subject to queries were approved.
9. CEO’s Update

The New Ministerial Team
Mr James informed members that, following the General Election, the Prime Minister had
appointed Michael Gove as Lord Chancellor. Dominic Raab, the new Minister for Human
Rights, will be responsible for The National Archives.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (The Goddard Inquiry)
Mr James suggested that the Council may wish to invite the Secretary to the Inquiry to a
future meeting.
10. Any Other Business
10.1 Forum on Historical Manuscripts and Academic Research update
The Council members who had attended the morning’s meeting of the Forum agreed that it had been
useful and interesting. Dr Lomas explained that the Forum was keen to keep the Council involved in
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its work. It would therefore ensure that members were kept informed, and had the opportunity to
contribute via email.
10.2 FOI Exemptions Chart
Members asked that chart of FOI exemptions provided to them for reference be amended to reflect
recent judgments.
10.3 Date of Next Meeting
The next meeting of the Advisory Council will be held on 16 July 2015. Location: The National
Archives, Kew
There being no further business, the meeting was closed.
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