the guru
c
b ar
rv
ia
t l
o h
de o
My routine is :
optimizing the
use of time.
M
a
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c
o
Jn
od
se
é s
Year 1991: Inauguration of an exposition
at Museu do Pontal.
Year 1972: Along with the CIER Latin America chief officers.
My will is to
remain active
and capable of
contributing to
the industry.
PAC.MARCH.2010
year 1978: Receiving an award
from CESP President at Lucas
Nogueira Garcez Hydro Plant
My professional
challenge was
SINC, because I
had to transpose
obstacles
imposed
by people’s
fears and
preconceived
ideas and at the
same time I had
to find financial
support for all
the phases of
the project.
José Marcondes Brito
de Carvalho
Biography:
José Marcondes Brito de
Carvalho graduated with
degrees in electrical and
mechanical engineering from
Escola Federal de Engenharia
de Itajubá, Brazil in 1954. He
later specialized in Power
System Operation at Eletricité
de France (EDF) in Paris and
Toulouse, France. He started
his career at Companhia
Hidrelétrica do São Francisco
(CHESF). He later held
leadership positions in different
companies and played a key
role in the interconnection
of the Brazilian power grid, as
well as the organization and
implementation of the National
System for Supervision and
Coordination of Interconnected
Operation (SINSC). For a period
of time he was the President of
Brazilian CIGRE.
He is currently Technical
Director of Cooperativa de
Serviços de Engenharia Ltda.
– COOSENGE, a consulting
company.
PAC.MARCH.2010
José Marcondes Brito de Carvalho
the guru
62
My family is
the base for
everything.
My wife and
PAC World: Where were you born
children are my
and where did you grow up?
JMB: I was born in Brazópolis, in the
south of Minas Gerais (a Southeast first priority.
state of Brazil), on March 1st, 1931.
I spent my childhood in Brazópolis and finished there my
basic education (7-13 years). After that, I went to live in
Campinas (a city in the state of São Paulo). There I studied
at Colégio Salesiano Nossa Senhora Auxiliadora, where I
completed the first year of high-school. The remaining two
years I finished at Colégio Itajubá, in Itajubá (another city in
Minas Gerais State).
PAC World: Is there someone in your family that influenced your decision to become an electrical engineer?
JMB: My father, despite not having graduated in any
high-education school, studied by himself all his life. He liked
to read and write very much. He was the editor of a local
newspaper, the Brazópolis Newspaper (Jornal de Brazópolis).
My father wanted all of us, his sons and daughters, to study
and have an independent and autonomous professional life.
PAC World: You studied engineering in EFEI - one of
the most famous engineering schools in Brazil. But why
PAC.MARCH. 2010
did you choose a university in a relatively small place
and not São Paulo or Rio engineering schools?
JMB: The initial reason for having decided for Electrical
Engineering was a “logistic one”.
The school of Itajuba, where I studied and graduated, was
called “Electrotechnical Institute of Itajubá”. It was, in fact,
very well known and considered, at that time, one of the best
Engineering Schools in Brazil.
Brazópolis, the small city where I lived, was very close
to Itajubá. To study in Itajuba would be easier and less
expensive. In addition, I had severe bronchitis, which made
my family, specially my mother, very worried and careful
about me. I got better as I grew up and graduated. Fortunately,
nowadays I almost no longer suffer from bronchitis.
PAC World: Why did you select electrical engineering
and power system protection?
JMB: Because of the same “logistic issue” mentioned above.
The only engineering course offered at Itajubá at that time
was Electro-technical Engineering. Any other alternative
would have forced me to leave my parents’ home with an
unnecessary increase in expenses.
I was involved with power system protection in the
José Marcondes Brito de Carvalho
beginning of my career because that was the opportunity I
got for my first employment.
PAC World: You later specialized at EDF in Paris and
Toulouse. Was French a language previously learned?
JMB: In this period, when I was working for USELPA,
there was an opportunity to take part in a trainee program
at Electricité de France (EDF). I did my submission at the
French Consulate. As I was selected, during my first month
in Paris, I had to learn French. So I did, as fast as I could.
I contacted a specialist in Electrical Energy Plant operation
and was assigned to work in Toulouse. There, I worked at the
Energy Dispatch Center (Centre de Mouvement d’Energie).
PAC World: What were the impressions of a 27 year
old Brazilian engineer, of Paris and Toulouse?
JMB: The tasks were heavy for the trainees and there was
not much time left for sightseeing and social activities. My
best souvenir from Paris is the privilege of attending an opera
at Charles Garnier Opera House along with my mother in
law, a piano teacher. From my stay in Southwestern France,
at Toulouse, the rose city, the visit to Lourdes was what
impressed me most.
PAC World: You started your career in Companhia
Hidrelétrica do São Francisco (CHESF) at Paulo Afonso
Hydro Plant in 1955. You soon moved to be the Load
Dispatch Section Head and you left the company in
1956. What made you change your focus so quickly?
JMB: The opportunities that sometimes arise for young
engineers, as follows. As soon as I graduated, in December
1954, I got a job at CHESF. I began working at CHESF on
January 19th, 1955. At that time, CHESF was reviewing its
organization structure. Then, as a new engineer, I was invited
to work in the area of protection and control. Later on, I
changed to another area, working in the Load Dispatching
Center.
PAC World: What were the next steps in your career?
JMB: Following this period, I went to work in an electrical
power generation plant, in Salto Grande, a tiny city in the
state of São Paulo. There, I had the opportunity to organize
the utility operation sector, anticipating what I was about to
do after the creation of USELPA, a utility belonging to São
Paulo State, responsible for the operation and maintenance
of “Lucas Nogueira Garcez” Hydro Plant facilities.
Later I began to work at CELUSA, supervising the
electromechanical assembly of the Jupiá Hydro Plant and
organizing its operation. With the creation of CESP, at the
end of 1966, I was invited to organize its operation as well.
It was very hard work to integrate the operation of different
companies, with four Load Dispatching Centers and with
overlapped functionalities. I continued working at CESP
until April 1974, becoming its Operation Director in 1972.
PAC World: You worked for CESP from 1966 until 1974.
The last three years you were Operations Director.
During that time Brazil started to interconnect
Southeast to South Systems through CESP. Was
it a natural local development or were you already
envisioning the benefits of interconnected operation?
the guru
63
JMB: I already envisioned the integrated operation. I also
already had experience from the integration of several small
utilities in CESP, coping with many Load Dispatching
Centers and many different transmission voltages with close
values. By that time the highest voltage in Brazil was 440
kV (CESP transmission system) that helped imagine a cross
country integrated system.
The interconnection between the SE and S systems for
energy exchange and mutual assistance was implemented
between CESP and Electric Energy Paranaense Company
(COPEL).
PAC World: Brazil benefits more and more from the concepts of interconnected operation, mainly based on the
different hydrological regimes. How could you envision
those concepts?
JMB: The idea came from my experience during my trainee
program at Electricité de France with seasonal defrost water
availability. Of course the concept had to be adapted to the
Brazilian conditions.
PAC World: What was behind the idea for creating
the Coordinator Group for Interconnected Operation
(GCOI) for South, Southeast and Northeast Regions?
JMB: Recognizing the benefits and limitations of CCOI’s
(the GCOI predecessor) actions, and, on the other side, the
consequences of the world oil crisis, the effect of Itaipu’s
construction on the operation of the Brazilian Interconnected
System and the increase on the interconnections among
state and regional companies, the Brazilian government has
decided to legally discipline the Coordination of Operation
of the Interconnected Electrical System.
PAC.MARCH.2010
José Marcondes Brito de Carvalho
the guru
64
I’m not tough.
I am a demanding
person and I
believe that
commitments
PAC World: People still acknowlhave to be
edge that the GCOI structure was
necessarily
very effective. Could you explain
what the concept behind it was?
JMB: We started working with a accomplished.
basic and flexible structure, capable
of quickly creating organisms or spreading the original
organisms into new and more efficient ones. I think that the
success was also obtained from the previous meetings with
subcommittees’ and WGs conveners, so the agenda could be
carefully prepared.
PAC World: When the Protection WG (GTP) and Meters
and Instruments WG (GTMI) were created, did you miss
the times of the beginning of your career?
JMB: Of course I remembered the time when I started my
career and had the opportunity to learn from some leading
specialists in Brazil that later had very high positions in the
industry and as ministers.
PAC World: Are you aware that all GTP products are
preserved and that they are still a reference for young
and experienced engineers?
JMB: I am very glad to hear that. I firmly believe that the
documents are still useful: the basic concepts didn’t change
and the vast material of real application cases is priceless. We
don’t need to invent the wheel again.
PAC World: Are you aware that GTMI was recently recreated by Eletrobras?
JMB: Maintenance has a kind of cyclic characteristic under
the high managers’ viewpoint. I think we are starting a new
positive semi cycle.
PAC.MARCH. 2010
PAC World: What can you tell us about the Brazilian
Electric Energy Matrix (hydro, nuclear, oil, coal, diesel,
etc.) during your mandate in GCOI?
JMB: By then, the fossil fuels were quite expensive, because
of the oil crisis. So, the main goal was to reduce operation
costs, taking advantage of our large predominance of hydro
generation in our energy matrix. The creation of the above
mentioned CCC (Fuel Current Account) including the
isolated systems of the states in the Amazon Region was not
a simple thing to handle.
PAC World: What can you tell us about the organization
and implementation of the National System for Supervision and Coordination of Interconnected Operation
(SINSC) designed to provide real-time supervision and
coordination for the Brazilian Interconnected System?
JMB: The support provided by the legislation review
and from the executive power itself, stemming from the
President of the Republic, were of the utmost importance
to allow the implementation of a control center for system
wide supervision and actions. The large utilities were not
feeling comfortable being “supervised”, but that was calmed
by time and practical experience. From the technical point of
view, my team and I visited the most modern control centers
in Europe and the U.S., so SINSC could be at their level.
PAC World: Itaipu is an entity belonging to Paraguay
and Brazil and regulated by a treaty between the two
countries. What can you tell us about this treaty?
JMB: Mario Gibson Barboza, one of the most important
people in Brazilian politics, had the idea of building a hydro
plant in that area. With its construction, all the territory
I read history books,
because I like to understand why things happen.
which created the argument between the countries would
be under the water and this argument would not be valid
anymore.
PAC World: Could you explain how the decision was
made about the use of two frequencies (50 Hz for
Paraguay and 60 Hz for Brazil)?
JMB: The decision of respecting each country’s frequency,
despite its inherent importance, is nearly negligible when
compared with the misunderstanding between the two
countries about the correct border location. In fact, the
perspective of changing the frequency of Paraguay was
considered, but the atmosphere of cooperation between the
two countries led to maintaining 50 Hz for our neighbor
country. On the other hand, as one can see today, having
a HVDC link to bring to São Paulo nearly half of Itaipu's
energy is a beneficial solution for Brazil.
PAC World: What were the necessary activities to
insert the energy produced by Itaipu Hydro in Brazil?
JMB: The first machines of Itaipu started operating in the
testing phase, at the end of 1981, along with the first pole
of direct current system (1560 MW transmission capacity),
PAC.MARCH.2010
José Marcondes Brito de Carvalho
rated 600 kV, but it started its operation in this testing
period at 300 kV. Later on, other 50 Hz machines joined
the operation, along with the complementation of the
direct current system and 60 Hz machines, with the 750 kV
system, whose first circuit, passing by Ivaiporã, Itaberá and
Tijuco Preto substations, started operating in October, 1982.
There was, however, a need to coordinate the operation in
Itaipu Hydro Plant, a binational entity with both Brazilian
and Paraguayan electric systems, with which it would be
interconnected.
So in 1981, when the power plant was about to go into
service, the Operation Committee Eletrobras – Ande – Itaipu
(CMO) was created, with study groups covering frequency
and power reserve load control, operation and protection
studies, commissioning and operating procedures.
In 1985, the Committee for Contract Administration of
ITAIPU (CADOP) was created. This Committee aimed at
discussing the commercial aspects of the interconnection
of the power plant with the Electric Systems of Brazil and
Paraguay in a forum different from the one which considered
the technical aspects,
PAC World: Could you tell us about your activities
within CIGRÉ and about CIGRÉ itself?
JMB: Brazilian CIGRÉ was at its beginning. I agreed to be
the president, but for a short mandate. I cooperated with the
organization of the institution in Brazil.
PAC World: After so many years you are still working,
now as the Technical Director of a consulting company.
What keeps you going?
JMB: My will to remain active and capable of contributing to
the industry. As a senior consulting engineer and as a team
leader I have been working with power plant and substation
electromechanical projects. One other thrilling aspect of my
recent jobs is operational power system studies to evaluate
the impact imposed by new installations, so they can be put
into service strictly according to the grid procedures.
PAC World: Can you describe your typical day?
JMB: I remain a very busy person and I keep giving love and
attention to my wife and family. My routine is: optimizing
the use of time.
PAC World: What do you consider your greatest professional achievement?
JMB: To have been the only person to work for sixteen years
as a Director of Eletrobras.
PAC World: What was your biggest professional
challenge?
JMB: SINSC, no doubt. I had to overcome obstacles imposed
by people’s fears and preconceived ideas and at the same time
to find financial support for all phases of the project.
PAC World: Besides electricity, is there any other subject included in the technical literature that you read?
JMB: History books, because I like to understand why things
happen. For instance, Henry Kissinger, former US Secretary
of State used to say that a good share of his success came from
knowing the habits and characteristics of the inhabitants of
the different countries, what facilitated the negotiations.
the guru
65
66
José Marcondes Brito de Carvalho
the guru
My wife, Zilah, is the great woman that brought up our
five children understanding and supporting me during
the time of working away from São Paulo..
PAC World: Do you agree with those who think that
practically everything that a person must learn about
life is already published in the great classic books?
JMB: I do, indeed. But the real practice of life and relationship
among groups of people is in the good history books.
PAC World: You are known as a tough guy among those
who work in the Brazilian electricity industry. Is it true?
JMB: I’m not tough. I am a demanding person and I believe
that commitments have to be necessarily accomplished. I
don’t like to postpone the solution of problems. All this,
naturally, has a great influence on those who work with me.
PAC World: How did you deal with so many different
people and interests at different organizations and all
levels throughout your career?
JMB: By transmitting a sense of equality among all levels of
professionals I dealt with. To show respect for people and
institutions was one of the key issues in my career.
PAC World: What is the place of your family in your life?
JMB: My family is the base for everything. My wife and
children are my first priority. My wife, Zilah, is the great
woman that brought up our five children understanding and
supporting me during our weekends together along my life
of working away from São Paulo, the city that became the
family hometown.
PAC World: Four of your children are engineers. How do
you explain that?
JMB: That was a natural choice they took during the IT
boom in Brazil. They are not electrical engineers like me. It is
important to state that my other daughter is an MD.
PAC World: Which is your favorite place outside of
Brazil and why?
JMB: It is Paris, for sure. For instance, I celebrated my fifty
years of marriage with a solemn mass at the Sacré Coeur
Cathedral with all my children and grandchildren.
PAC World: Are you interested in art or music?
JMB: I have a general interest in both, mostly considering the
classical masterpieces. I wouldn’t say that I am a specialist in
art or music.
PAC World: Do you think that art can have an impact
on an electrical engineer and if yes, how?
JMB: Indeed, but the way through which each person is
affected by art depends on the individual characteristics. My
best option, when I am travelling abroad, is to visit museums. There are moments when I don’t even feel time goes by.
PAC World: As a music fan, what are your preferred
composers, conductors, orchestras and soloists?
JMB: In fact, I don’t have specific preferences for high quality
music. I am not against popular music. What I can’t stand is
noisy music.
PAC World: What kind of food do you like best?
JMB: I take a lot of care with my meals. I firmly believe that
a light and healthy diet is the best option for me. The main
reason for that is my natural preference for such kind of
food.
PAC World: What can we do as an industry to attract
more young people to engineering and more specifically
to electric power systems and their protection, control
and operations?
JMB: The real offer of a work market with reasonably stable
conditions is the main issue. The career challenges play
an important role in such a market, probably as much as
emoluments do.
In Brazil the IT boom took away lots of good students from
electrical engineering. Now things have changed and the fast
growth of our power system is attracting many bright young
people again.
Note: The full text of Mr. Brito's interview can be downloaded from the PAC World website.
PAC.MARCH. 2010