Linda
Very hilarious jokes. And I remember there's a time we laughed and we [inaudible]. I
personally loved him with [inaudible] because it was so cute and neat and he really
looked nice. But there's this time him and my brother decided to keep this afro long
hair. And my brother doesn't have a really good head. So then one day, again, there
was this girlfriend of my brother who was [inaudible] his hair, and then my brother was
[inaudible]. And when he came home one day, my dad and looked and said, you know,
in his life he's never seen something so ugly. And Nick was there and then he ended up
having a [inaudible]. He put in his own words. He used to say it everywhere they
would. Like he used to imitate my dad and what he told my brothers.
11:05:01:03
So everywhere we go and cracking jokes, he used to go say. It was in [speaking
Swahili]. And he'd say, after that my dad my dad give brother 20 bob, you know, 20 bob
is very little to cut your hair. So he was just only telling everyone that my dad had, you
know, was so bewildered (?) that how can you [inaudible] your hair? And he continued
enjoying brother. And we used to say it until it had become like a song, like it had beats
of how he had -- we enjoyed and then so all the time when Nick was there we would
always just have jokes, and we'd do our routine dance, by default. So we would do this
dance and we would do a line he always somehow we used to be in sync. And then he
spoils it at some point. He does something which distracts everyone else, and then we
stopped in the middle and guys are watching and we're there quarrelling, "What are you
doing?" You know, why are you even -- [inaudible] we literally [inaudible] which he
gives.
1
Linda
11:06:10:01
There are videos which we took of. Those many ones there. That was the last one
which we danced to our [inaudible] song, and it was during this anniversary and we -- I
remember we were dancing and they had this shades, and he always had to have choker
and bangles, and it was pretty much the last dance we did in one of our parties. And
everyone was there to watch him. Like if everyone -- all the guests we had, they
surrounded him. And he was giving this talk, and we would dance, and somewhere
along the dance my brother just puts the music off. And he's going on dancing and
continuing rapping.
11:07:02:15
And he used to rap. He used rap mixing [inaudible], mixing Swahili, English, things that
don't make sense really but they were just entertaining for everyone. And people would
laugh. And there's so much high five. And then he always had somewhere to go. He
always had to join a friend somewhere and he always had to keep someone else company.
And we ended up going to town, and we --
INTERVIEWER: [Inaudible]
After taking a drink and we – we would just sing this [inaudible]. It was something like
meeting someone and saying, "Hi, can you lead you to know them?" And then it can lead
you to like them, and then it can lead you to hook up into an relationship, and then it can
lead you to get pregnant, and then it could lead you -- and it was being done in
2
Linda
[inaudible]. And it all had [inaudible] at the end. So then it was, he's the rapper and the
guys are, you know, like he'd rap and the rest of us are -- like he'd rap, and then you guys
are singing.
11:08:03:17
Angie: [Inaudible] you didn't come here it was lunch.
Linda: No, it wasn't running. Oh, [inaudible] I'm just remembering.
INTERVIEWER: [Inaudible] Angie, are you ready?
Angie: Oh, sorry. Okay, um, so your story is actually very nice. It all kind of makes
sense now. I'm like putting the pieces of the puzzle. Because Nick would say, "Okay,
I'm going out with my boys, I'm going to have some beer, I'm going to have some fun." I
always say, "Beer? Why do you want to drink beer? That's disgusting." You know?
Being a girl I'm like uh, I'm not drinking no beer. So, um, he would say, "Yeah, we went
out, you know, we had fun," and all this stuff. So now that I can see what he was trying
to tell me, you know, it makes a lot of sense, you know, hearing you tell the story. So
thank you for that.
Linda: Oh, yeah, we did -- what I cannot lie to you about, yes, we did love our alcohol.
11:09:02:14
3
Linda
Angie: Yeah.
Linda: And I don't think, well, the Friday's and Saturday’s there has to be something. So
we'd have to ask, "So what are you doing tonight? So what's the plan?" Every time I'd
come tonight, it would be a -- I think I had a party Friday, Saturday, and then Sunday I'm
traveling back to Kisumu. Until when I came back to Nairobi also then there was
partying. It was always fun. And it wasn't that you're going to drink yourself silly like
crazy. It's because of the bonding that would happen. So we would just find ourselves
together somewhere, having a drink. And then we'll go somewhere and watch over each
other’s back. And there's all this drama. And, you know, Nick, he loved music. We
loved music, he loved music. I think even where he was staying if there was no sound
system or anything. I remember we used enjoy [inaudible] because when we
would -- that's why we didn't also like going to their house because there was no music.
Because when you go -- we couldn't sit like talking without someone wanting to play
some music or without him wanting to say "Have you heard this song?" Or have you, you
know? And every time there was a new song we'd share it amongst it each other.
11:10:07:10
"Have you heard this one?" And then we're like, “Where are we go to dance to this one?”
So we'd go to club Betty's and then we would -- we're just moving around clubs we'd
been. Which we could afford then. And every time there was just somewhere to meet.
Not in a -- if it was a house it's a house party. If it's in the club it's the club. And we
would just be clubbing. Like from now, we would look for Yama (spelling) and just put
Nyama Choma. I don't know if you'd eaten Nyama Choma but it was just roast meat,
4
Linda
eat. That's when we got to each other. When we started working, yeah. So we would
go and after eating, we were boarding this place and they were like, "Let's go." And then
when it reaches sometimes 2:00 a.m., they end up remaining boys. I would leave and
go, sometimes I would stay. Sometimes they were mean, like, "Where are you going?"
You know? "Why are you going away? Why are you leaving us? Stay here." And I'd
end up staying because it's so much fun.
11:11:01:09
And we used to really, really enjoy the partying a lot. We did party quite a bit. Lots of
good fun. Lots of – and that, I think, what everyone kept on saying even when, you
know, when he passed, and everyone was like he was such a full of life person. Because
everywhere around him -- if you were around Nick there's just happiness. I don't
remember when we were sad or when we were frowning over something. And we
would get mad at each other. Funny stuff. Yeah, we'd quarrel a lot. There was always
an argument going on. There's always, "You're saying this and I'm saying this. No! It
has to be this [inaudible]." Quarrel and then at the end of the day that quarrel becomes a
joke, you know? So we'd make fun of all of that and we have fun and we tell each other
we love each other. And we hug and we'd drink and then we'd dance until the wee hours
of the morning. Every December we had to meet. He used to go to Mambasa to see
Lily.
11:12:05:07
Angie: Yeah.
5
Linda
Linda: So when he goes to Mambasa -- remember there's a time we had planned for a
party. Then he said he has to go to Mambasa, and we were like, "Why can't you go, you
know, another time?” When we were quarreling, “I have to go, that's my big sister. I have
to go.” Then we’re like, “Why can't you tell them come? They never come to Kisumu.”
So we were trying to tell him. Just convince Lily this time, let them be the ones to come,
you know, to Kisumu so that we show them how we party, and so that we enjoy. And
the same time wants all of us to go to Mambasa. It's like holding on to -- we want it well
as we're together at some point having fun and enjoying. And we even have times when
we're watching a movie, which would never end because somehow people start
discussing the movie and talking about how this guy’s looks -- you know. Just instead
of watching the movie we're dissing the cast and saying they should have done this. And
then we try imitate them and try to do our own movie, and then we'd never watch a movie
to the end.
11:13:05:02
I remember that time I used to meet Nick a lot when I -- I moved to Nairobi to work in
Nairobi and there was a [inaudible]. It was so exciting, and we kept on telling each
other, "Now we'll party like, you know, there's no tomorrow.” And we said, yeah, we
would. But we would meet in towns sometimes after work. And I remember I used to
be like, "Let's go and eat chips." There's this many food drinks, but they're fast foods.
And Nick saying, "Yeah, let's go. I'll buy you chips." He say, "Why you buying chips at
this cost?" Nick never loved being exploited. Yeah. He'd always be like, "Why do you
want to pay this much and yet you can get this sort of fairer deal?" So he wouldn't let you
6
Linda
just go pay. Even if it's a beer, if even if it’s water, he’d be like, "Why are we buying
this bottle? We can go buy it here?"
11:14:02:22
And then we'd come -- we beeped, and then I'm like, “We can't come with drinks here.
And we'll not be allowed let's just be,” -- this day we met in town and I was hungry and I
told him, "Let's go just and eat chips here. I'm buying." So he was like, "How much is
it?" I told Nick, it's -- I think it was 60 shillings. Then he said, "What? You want to go
and pay that? I can show you a place to eat a nice meal. [Speaking Swahili], you know,
which is the typical food. So then he said, "There's a rooftop somewhere in town." So
I'm like, "Oh, okay I never knew that." I told him, "I'm so hungry it had better be good."
We walked from one end of town to the other and I was quarrelling Nick the whole
journey. I'm like, "Did we have to go here to save --" we were saving, I think 30
shillings only. And I said, "How can you make me walk? We're not reaching," -- so I
kept telling, "Let's just get in here." And you know Nick was also very stubborn. So he'd
not let you have your way. He decided we're going, let's go.
11:15:01:00
So we walked, we walked, and we went upstairs somewhere I have never ever thought
existed actually in Nairobi. And the food was nice, yes, but I remember after eating we
were quarrelling.
Angie: Okay, so um, yeah, you guys had a great time. A lot of clubs. I think one of
7
Linda
those clubs that you mentioned, Betty's, we already filmed so we can kind of, you know,
transpose it together. So that's good.
Linda: Oh, that's great.
Angie: So, um, so you're back in Nairobi. You guys are having fun, and, um, I think you
really brought to life his character, you know, like everybody has a different perspective
of him. I think you guys all pulled it together. He becomes like this larger than life
guy, you know what I mean?
Linda: He was larger than life.
Angie: It's like he's amazing which I think is one of the reasons why I loved him. He
was just so unique and so funny and, you know, always made me laugh. But was also
very, um, you know, sensitive too. He was a good listener and everything.
11:15:57:15
Linda: Yeah.
Angie: So, um, I want to get this question off camera just in case the lights go out. So,
we're doing the story about Nick and about love and everything. Um, what would you
want the world to know about Nick and about, um, what true love is and romance and
stuff? Well, first, let me back up, let me back up because I just asked you a question
very cold. Let me warm you up to the question.
8
Linda
Linda: All right, that's fine.
Angie: Okay, so obviously Nick and I were dating, you know, we started a couple of
years before he passed. Okay, so up until that point, how did you find out that him and I
were dating? Or did it come not until I arrived at the funeral?
Linda: No, no, uh, I knew about you. Nick told me about you. Nick told me this time -well, Nick being cute guy and he was very caring for people, naturally, those girls around
him, in all honesty, were interested. And he wouldn’t -- he wasn't the type of guy to
say, "No." Like he would just be very kind, but he would still be accommodative.
11:17:06:00
So then, we cared for each other. He used to ask me how I'm doing relationship wise
and him. And I kept asking him, "So Nick, you know, what's going on. Where's the
girl?" You know, because he wasn't in a stable relationship. He wasn't in a relationship
that I knew. And he told me, "Lindy, this time I met someone I love. I met this girl,
she's hot, hot. This is the one." You know, he told. But then we were in town, honestly
speaking, and unfortunately I went too and he was gone. But he told me -- I would push
him also, "Tell me, tell me, you know, what's going on with you? Which girl are you
dating?" I used to be like big sister then. I used to tell him, "Don't [inaudible]."
[Inaudible] girls we are just going drinking and partying. We don't have, you know,
outgrow (?) as, you know, random kids who don't listen. So I used to really encourage
him. And my brother a lot, you know, bring us your girlfriend.
9
Linda
11:17:59:14
So he told me, “This girl, I met her.” And I asked him, "So how come I haven't met
her?" You know, because I would be like, "You're supposed to bring her to me." So that,
you know, we like things and that we [inaudible], you know? Said, “She's cool.” So he
say, “ No, [inaudible] not my type because she's not in the country. She's an American.”
And I even asked him -- I even knew what you do. I knew you met Nick somewhere
doing some work. And he told me you should be coming over. And he was so psyched
up, and then he said he's going to go, you know, to the U.S. He'll be a "nigga", you know,
the way he just used to be funny. And, yeah, I remember him. He told me, "This time I
found a girl I want to be serious with." And Lindy, [speaking Swahili] that means you,
you can't miss knowing her. You're the first person as soon as she lands. Obviously,
you know, I'll bring her.” And he said, "She's serious, you know, she has focus," and he
kept on telling me about you. And I kept telling him, "Bring her. We want to show her
how we do it in Kenya." You know?
11:19:03:01
And I told him once she comes we'll take her out to a party and she has to know us for
who we are and kept on going about. You know, I asked, "So is she, you know, like is
she those U.S. girls who are up there, and us guys you know the life we lead." And he
said, "No, she's a very easy person." [Inaudible] then I [inaudible] you're not fussy and
you're not -- and he really wanted me to meet you. But he cared, he had this sensitive
thing like you were saying, he would be all fine and larger than life. But he had this very
sensitive part for people who he was very close to. Once he gets close to you, I think,
10
Linda
Nick would be very expressive, and he used to be very cozy and cuddly and we would
talk sometimes and just -- he'd say his plans. He really wanted to actually -- when I
spoke to him, he said he would love to fly out and start doing his own stuff, his business.
11:20:03:04
So he had some focus, he said, "Yeah, I’m a real hassle but,” – You know, and he really
trusted in God. I really admired that actually. The thing I missed to say at the start of
this interview is when I met Nick and the siblings, they're from a very prayerful
background. Despite the fun, despite everything, they'll still church. And when we
met, I remember we used to laugh at them because they would be funky looking over the
week and then on Sunday they're in suits and those just [inaudible]. Which he
[inaudible] no more on Sunday. I remember there’s a [Inaudible] Grinch. And then
they'd leave with us this orange shot (?) and then we would also be going to check this
way and they had go. And sometimes we were from partying hard but the next day
everybody's in church. And then sometimes when we'd be at their place those, you
know, we’d even play Gospel music and it was a really nice relationship because it wasn't
purely for fun.
11:21:06:03
There was a lot of realism in it. Which we used to tell each other, "You know, this bond
we have, no one has it." I remember we kept on telling each other like, "Family, we're not
born of the same mom and dad." And he used to say the same. But we just had another
different connection which anyone who wanted to question, I think, we [inaudible] like
11
Linda
who are you? You know, I think at times there's some people wanted to feel like they're
tight or closer and sometimes we're hanging out and including some girls. I remember
the one we used to really kick off the girls if I didn't approve especially when we were
out there and the girls were imposing that they're tight and, you know, they cannot be like
you. Once I asked him, "So, who's this?" Then he'd say -- and I'm like this girl, "No."
You know? And really, we talk a lot, yeah, we do. So we’d find a way of just doing
away with company we just didn't want.
11:22:05:16
And when we do away with company we don't want he'd be like, "[Inaudible] this is my
pal." And we're like, "Your pal from where? How come we don't? If it's your pal we’d
have known them. If it's your pal we should have known them." Because we guys hang
out. And we're like, "This girl she just wants this.” And we’d quickly dismiss them.
And even he would take our side that's funny [inaudible]. We were very accommodative
because Nick was, he was like the mayor. Every time I'd walk with him in town, if we're
going to a place after walking 15 minutes I think sometimes we'd be walking for 45.
Because when we start walking then somebody here stops us and somebody stopping us
here and somebody stopping us, and he had to stop. Nick wouldn't ignore anyone
everywhere. And he hadn't -- what sometimes I would find comical he had friends who
were even older. Older by far than us, and even young people his age and even younger.
11:23:04:04
And sometimes I would even find myself questioning him like, “What are you doing
12
Linda
this?” We call old men [inaudible] like what are you doing with this guy? What's your
relationship? And they'd say [inaudible]. But I think I admired the -- when he
developed a relationship with somebody as a friend, or he was intimate with just quite a
few people. I don't -- he was very friendly out there, but just certain people who you
know this ones are very close to him. And I think Nick would protect those people with
whatever he'd go out. You can't mess around with people who are close to you. You
can't mess around with his sisters. And sometimes I felt like he was behaving like his
big brother and he's the baby, you know? Sometimes he's feeling like the one who has to
play the big brother role and, you know -- because he was -- he really didn't fear
anybody, Nick.
11:24:04:12
He'd tell you anything whether you're getting mad, whether you're crying, whether you're
going to hate him, or he just -- I think it was very real because he didn't have to pretend.
He couldn't pretend with anybody, so you take it or leave it. He'll tell you as it is point
blank. Whether sober or high, he'll tell you anything beyond the moon. And I think
that's what really made even the white guys relate very well. Because if -- he when he
met Maria, Maria is my daughter [inaudible] because she was born a week just after he
passed on. And I remember the first time Nick was so protective to the point he wanted
to protect me from Maria's own dad, you know, the first time they met. You know, even
he, Maria's dad, would wonder, who’s the snake?
11:25:05:05
13
Linda
Because I introduced him. And then he -- I mean he got some point not too comfortable
because we were so close. And, you know, "With Nick you're holding each other and
you're just talking and high fiving and doing very close." At some point, I think that
brought some discomfort. And I remember him saying, "You go tell that guy not to joke
with you because if he jokes with you, we're going to come and, you know, like
[Speaking Swahili] Okay, that means, he said , “I’m going to, you know, I’m going to
like break his stomach.” You know, like, "Let him not joke with you." He doesn't know
you, he doesn't who you are, and he was so protective. And I remember, you know, I
was expectant the last times, and we met in town and he laughed at me. He laughed, he
laughed. And he said [speaking Swahili] like guy, you know, like this guy’s, you know,
blowing your stomach up.
11:26:06:19
"What has he done? Has he come up?" You know, he was asking me like he's my big
brother. "This guy, is he treating you well?" And it was really, “Is he take good care of
you? You know, is it good you're expecting a child? What's going to go on?” And,
yeah, it had my interest, even my own sisters. I remember the first time they just didn't
understand the relationship. And we tell them, "Nick is Nick, like a brother." And
they're like, "Yeah, but so?" Because he was just so close. Whenever we were with him
he asked to just be. Only I think Nick we were so close. Sometimes when we would be
in Kisumu even with [inaudible] when I was still there we’d -- even just be there
changing into our PJ's and talking and just around and it's not like -- it's like girlfriend
and boyfriend at the same time. We were very free. So people didn't understand that.
Sometimes would wonder what's going on?
14
Linda
11:27:03:07
And I think that's why sometimes maybe some girls would wonder who's this Lindy?
But if they tried to ask or say anything nasty, he'd be the first one to get cross with them
because they don't know where we are from. And us girls we relate very closely. We
used to say, "We are relatives by force." You know, because we're not related by blood,
but we're relatives. [Inaudible] your family they're like we're closer than like some of
our own cousins in all honesty. Yeah.
Angie: Yeah, okay. That was a very interesting answer. [Laughter].
Linda: Long enough to pick up.
Angie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put all the pieces together.
Linda: Yeah.
Angie: Okay, so that was the warm up to, you know, the final question that I want to get
at. Um, because me, obviously coming from America, is two different cultures. And
maybe some people won't understand that.
Linda: Um-hmm.
11:28:00:16
15
Linda
Angie: So, could you just talk a little bit about, um, you know love and romance and, in
your eyes, how it starts and no matter the culture differences.
Linda: Um-hmm. Okay, what I'd say about love in a man's -- from my own story and
from other people that I have seen --
INTERVIEWER: [Inaudible]
Linda: Okay.
Angie: Okay, so yeah, just talk about, um, love and romance and your idea of it. Um,
you know, no matter the cultural differences.
Linda: Um, I think, for me, I know love exists, yeah? And the first thing I'd say is when
two people meet, a lot of the times people are physically attracted, and then you just start
from -- I think, for me, I've seen that people start with love during the excitement phase
where it's all about this new, exciting person who I want to spend time with.
11:29:06:23
But I think it's very true, you can get to meet somebody and there's just a connection, to
me, which I feel is between two people which nobody else can really understand. But
what the two people who are in love should always know is, it doesn't matter that I'm
poor or I'm rich or that I'm [speaking Swahili] or I'm [speaking Swahili] or that I'm white
and you're black. People meet but people come in with their own preset, you know,
16
Linda
mindset where, you know, I want this kind of person. And all I need is to just call them,
[inaudible], we meet, and see if we like each other and try if it doesn't work. I think
what I learned about love is one should never give up. If you really love somebody,
there's just a feeling you can't put words to.
11:30:05:15
You just find this person who you just find. You have this deep bond with, and when
you meet, it's just the two of you who exist and nobody else matters. And nobody
else -- you really don't care much what everyone else thinks. And, um, I just know -- I
learnt a lot and, Angie, I really respect you and admire for this. The fact that when Nick
told me about you, Angie, I kept on asking, you know, okay, maybe I shouldn't -- I kept
him telling him, "What makes you think, you know, that this American girl will come to,
you know, like love you and stay with you?" I just was watching out for him as his sister.
And I kept on telling him – I didn’t think (?) -- because he really told me, "Oh, I really
love this girl."
11:31:02:01
I told him, "What do you know about love? You're 25, what do you know about love?
Even us girls are not yet even at that stage.” You know, and then he said, "No, I love
this girl. Meet her, you wait and you'll meet her." Then I kept on wondering whether is
it because this -- I asked him, "You love her because you want to go to America?" Or
okay we're very close to say this (?) to each other. And he said, "No, she's a special girl
to me." And I kept asking what did she do to you? You know? That's the bit where
17
Linda
love can't be explained. Because even I said, "You just met her, how long have you
known her? You're long distance." Sure, you know distance relationships are hard
commitment, but I think I learned from your story and the fact that this distance didn't
keep you far because even when you're there he'd be, you know, [inaudible].
11:32:04:13
He always this – I asked him, “How do you communicate?” “We do it in mails, we do
all that.” I'm like, "Wow, you guys are special." I remember telling him. Oh, boy, you
guys are special. I can't hack distance relationships. But then he had this trust, you
know? That because I remember wondering, So how do you trust each other? This
distance? Her, and her culture, and her people, you here with your culture and your
people. How do you know you are people are hacking this? He just said, "You can't
understand." Yeah, he told me, Lindy, [speaking Swahili], you know, in Swahili. Lindy,
[speaking Swahili] you cannot understand. But you'll meet her." And I just said, "Wow,
then I'm happy. That's good for you." And I told him be serious if you're decided. Be
serious.
11:33:01:15
And that's what I learned that it was just so odd that you guys met. But he said there's
just this connection. She gets me, she understands me, we have ups and downs but we're
able to work them out. And I think the most important thing, for me, when I look at love
is that if you have somebody who you want to commit to despite the good and bad times.
Because I think where most people fail is that once someone upsets you, you dismiss
18
Linda
them or you start -- if your cycle of love was this wide, they annoyed you so it keeps
reducing. It keeps reducing. But I think the most important thing is that if you're able
to love someone to the point where if they did something wrong they ask they ask you to
forgive them, you do, and then you people move on from all this nasty or bad moments.
Then you keep that strong bond.
11:34:03:01
But I think the heart wants what the heart wants. And that's what I know many say is
love. Because you loved him despite who he was. He was a man of the people, he was
just Nick. He was not doing a formal job, he was doing his own business, he was a
rapper, he was a jack of all trades. But then you just accepted him, and I think that was
what was important. And even him, Nick, I used to say, "Nick, you, if God gave you
money, you'd go crazy." Because he loved good things. He loved class, he loved to
smell good, he loved -- he just loved that. And I said, "Wow, you've managed to," -- and
I was so proud of him. I used to tell him, "managed to get a girl." The [inaudible]
actually. Wow, [inaudible] awesome.
11:35:02:21
And we'd laugh about it in [inaudible] and say [speaking Swahili] there's a song in
[inaudible] called [speaking Swahili]. And that's like, "My girl", you know, my love.
And we'd be like. He managed to get a [inaudible] all the way from – all the way from
there and --
19