Question 3
Should women really be
silent in church?
The C of E have been accepting female
deacons since 1981 and ordaining female
priests since 1994 … the debate continues
on female Bishops
Women in Newfrontiers churches lead worship,
baptise new Christians, hand round communion,
pray publicly, prophesy, teach, train counsellors,
preach, run Alpha, steward, heal the sick, cast out
demons, witness in the streets, administrate
conferences…in fact everything men can do, so
do they! But because we see in the
Bible that overall responsibility both
in the church and in the home has
been designated by God
to men, we do not have
women elders
Wendy Virgo
Paul emphatically commanded that women
should not teach or have authority over men in
the church
Mark Driscoll
Men and women are equal in ALL areas of life,
ministry and marriage
Godswordtowomen.org
‘Ministers of religion’ remains the only job title
where it remains lawful to discriminate on
grounds of gender
BBC news website
The beginning …
The beginning … Genesis 1
“And God said …
… and it was good.”
Then God said ‘Let us make mankind in our
image, in our likeness …
… So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them; male
and female, he created them.
(Genesis 1:26, 27 NIV)
The beginning … Genesis 1
Men and women BOTH
created by God
The beginning … Genesis 1
Men and women BOTH
carry the image of God
The beginning … Genesis 1
To gain a complete ‘echo’
of God’s image you have
to consider men AND
women
God blessed them and said to them, “Be
fruitful and increase in number; fill
the earth and subdue it.
Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in
the sky and over every living creature that
moves on the ground.”
(Genesis 1:28 NIV)
The beginning … Genesis 1
The command to rule
over the earth is given to
men and women
TOGETHER
WHY did God make woman?
The Lord God said, ‘It is not good for the man to
be alone. I will make a helper suitable
for him.’ …
So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a
deep sleep; and while he was sleeping he took
one of the man’s ribs and then closed up the place
with flesh. Then the Lord God made a
woman from the rib he had taken out of the
man, and he brought her to the man.
The man said ‘This is now bone of my bones and
flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman
because she was taken out of man.
(Genesis 2: 18; 21-23 NIV)
WHY did God make woman?
Adam needed a helper
WHY did God make woman?
Adam was different from
the animals etc
WHY did God make woman?
He needed a helper ‘on
his level’ (ie created in
God’s image)
‘It is not
good for the man to be alone ...”
(Genesis 2:18 NIV)
God blessed them and said to them, “Be
fruitful and increase in number; fill
the earth and subdue it.
Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the
sky and over every living creature that moves
on the ground.”
(Genesis 1:28 NIV)
WHY did God make woman?
Adam needed some help
with increasing in
number!
About Adam’s ‘helper’
‘Helper’ wasn’t an
inferior role
About Adam’s ‘helper’
15/19 uses of the word
‘helper’ in the OT apply
to God. 3 apply to men.
Your face Lord I will seek … for
you have
been my helper
(Psalm 27:9 NIV)
The Lord is with me; he is my helper
(Psalm 118:7 NIV)
About Adam’s ‘helper’
Woman was a ‘helper
suitable for him’
About Adam’s ‘helper’
Original Hebrew suggests
‘corresponding to him’
About Adam’s ‘helper’
Woman ‘complements’
man
Complement (defn):
(noun) a thing that completes or brings to
perfection
(verb) add to something in a way that
enhances or improves it; make perfect
To the woman he said, …
Your desire will be for your husband and he
will rule over you.
(Genesis 3:16 NIV)
To the woman he said, …
Your desire will be for your husband and he
will rule over you.
(Genesis 3:16 NIV)
You’ll want to please your husband but he’ll
lord it over you
(The Msg)
The sentence seems straightforward. Eve will
long for intimacy with her husband but he will
not reciprocate but rather will push her away
and become domineering over her… it is
here that the element of hierarchy
and headship comes into play for
the first time, as part of the
consequence of the fall, rather than being
part of God’s original intention at creation.
(Derek and Dianne Tidball, The message of women)
The status of women in Palestine during
the time of Jesus was undoubtedly that of
inferiors … women were not allowed to
study the Scriptures. One first century Rabbi,
Elizer, put the point sharply: ‘Rather should
the words of the Torah be burned
than entrusted to a woman’
Danielle Strickland. The Liberating Truth – how Jesus
empowers women
Both the OLD and NEW testaments
contain numerous examples of
strong male AND female leaders!
Women should remain silent in the
churches. They are not allowed to
speak but must be in submission, as
the law says. If they want to inquire about
something, they should ask their husbands at
home; for it is disgraceful for a
woman to speak in the church.
(1 Corinthians 14:34-35 NIV)
I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up
holy hands without anger or disputing. I also
want the women to dress modestly,
with decency and propriety, adorning
themselves, not with elaborate
hairstyles, or gold or pearls or
expensive clothes, but with good
deeds, appropriate for women who
profess to worship God …
(1 Timothy 2:8-10 NIV)
… A woman should learn in quietness and full
I do not permit a woman to
teach or to assume authority over a
man; she must be quiet. For Adam was
submission.
formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the
one decieved; it was the woman who was
decieved and became a sinner. But women will
be saved through childbearing – if they continue
in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 NIV)
Does
context
matter?
Women should remain silent in the
churches. They are not allowed to
speak but must be in submission, as
the law says. If they want to inquire about
something, they should ask their husbands at
home; for it is disgraceful for a
woman to speak in the church.
(1 Corinthians 14:34-35 NIV)
Intelligibility in worship…
(1 Corinthians 14 NIV)
Anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak
to people but to God. Indeed, no one
understands them; they utter mysteries by the
spirit … if I come to you and speak in tongues,
what good will I be to you, unless I bring you
some revelation or knowledge or prophecy? …
(1 Corinthians 14:2; 6 NIV)
Unless you speak intelligible words with your
tongue how will anyone know what you are
saying? … Since you are eager for gifts of the
Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the
church. For this reason the one who speaks in a
tongue should pray that they may interpret what
they say… otherwise how can someone else, who
is now put in the position of an enquirer, say
‘Amen’ to your thanksgiving since they do not
know what you are saying?
(1 Corinthians 14:9; 12; 13; 16 NIV)
2 or 3 prophets should speak and the others
should weigh carefully what is said. And if a
revelation comes to someone who is sitting
down, the first speaker should stop. For you
can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may
be instructed and encouraged.
(1 Corinthians 14:29-30 NIV )
Women should remain silent in the churches.
They are not allowed to speak but must be in
submission, as the law says. If they want to
inquire about something, they should ask their
husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a
woman to speak in the church.
(1 Corinthians 14:34-35 NIV)
The disciples kept this to themselves
and did not tell anyone at that time what they
had seen.
(Luke 9:36 NIV)
God is not a God of disorder but of
peace – as in all the congregations of the
Lord’s people...
… Everything should be done in a
fitting and orderly way.
(1 Corinthians 14:33; 40 NIV )
In a normal middle eastern cultural setting,
meeting places were set out with men on one
side and women on the other… The women
who began hearing the scriptures for the first
time would have had many questions for the
men who had been taught about them but
because of the seating arrangements, this
meant shouting across the room.
Bishop Graham Cray. Women in leadership
In its context it seems Paul is asking
women to remain silent if their
interventions are disruptive, just as he
asked prophets and tongue speakers to keep
quiet a few verses earlier.
(Derek & Dianne Tidball, The Message of Women)
To Timothy, my true son in the faith…
… As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,
stay there in Ephesus
(1 Timothy 1:2; 3-4 NIV)
To Timothy, my true son in the faith…
… As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,
stay there in Ephesus so that you may
command certain people not to teach
false doctrines any longer or to devote
themselves to myths and endless
genealogies. Such things promote
controversial speculations rather than advancing
God’s work.
(1 Timothy 1:2; 3-4 NIV)
About Ephesus at that time …
About Ephesus at that time …
- New Roman Women
“Changes in Roman
law for the purpose of
increasing economic
justice for wives had
unpredicted
consequences.”
Steve Robbins. Paul and
the new roman women
Caesar Augustus passed laws against the ‘new
roman woman’ seeking young sexual partners
… He legislated moral conduct: financial
disincentives for remaining single, career
advantages for getting married and having
children … and dress codes for how
respectable women were to dress in contrast to
adulterers, high class prostitutes and others.
Bruce Winter. Roman wives, Roman widows
About Ephesus at that time …
- New Roman Women
Ladette (defn): Young women who
behave in a boisterously
assertive or crude
manner and engage in
heavy drinking sessions
(Oxford university press 2001)
About Ephesus at that time …
- New Roman Women
“Roman jurisprudence distinguished
between the traditional modest wife
and the new roman woman by
means of appearance … for women
in first century Roman
Empire, you were what
you wore”
Steve Robbins. Paul and
the new roman women at
Ephesus.
I have not coveted anyone’s silver or
gold or clothing. You yourself know that
these hands of mine have supplied my own
needs and the needs of my companions.
(Acts 20: 33-34 NIV)
I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up
holy hands without anger or disputing. I also
want the women to dress modestly,
with decency and propriety, adorning
themselves, not with elaborate
hairstyles, or gold or pearls or
expensive clothes, but with good deeds,
appropriate for women who profess to worship
God …
(1 Timothy 2:8-10 NIV)
The ‘new roman women’ could be both brash
and bold. In addition these women could often
be outspoken, even aggressive in public
settings.
Steve Robbins – ‘Paul and the new women at Ephesus’
About Ephesus at that time …
- Worship of Artemis
About Ephesus at that time …
- Worship of Artemis
In the Artemis cult the
female was exalted and
considered superior to the
male … among the extreme
views were that women
were responsible for the
creation of men … teaching
also encouraged an
aversion to childbearing
Derek and Dianne Tidball The
message of women
… A woman should learn in quietness and full
submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or
to assume authority over a man; she
must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then
Eve. And Adam was not the one decieved; it
was the woman who was decieved and
became a sinner. But women will be saved
through childbearing – if they continue in
faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 NIV)
Paul stayed on at Corinth for some time. Then
he left … and sailed for Syria, accompanied by
Priscilla and Aquila.
They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left
Priscilla and Aquila.
(Acts 18:18 NIV)
To Timothy, my true son in the faith…
… As I urged you when I went into Macedonia,
stay there in Ephesus so that you may
command certain people not to teach
false doctrines any longer or to devote
themselves to myths and endless
genealogies. Such things promote
controversial speculations rather than advancing
God’s work.
(1 Timothy 1:2; 3-4 NIV)
As for younger widows… they get into the habit
of being idle and going about from house to
house. And not only do they become
idlers, but also busy bodies who talk
nonsense, saying things they ought
not to. I counsel younger widows to marry, to
have children …
(1 Timothy 5:11;13 NIV)
They are the kind who worm their way into
homes and gain control over gullible
women, who are loaded down with sins and
are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always
learning but never able to come to a knowledge
of the truth.
(2 Timothy 3:6-7 NIV)
… A woman should learn in quietness and full
submission. I do not permit a woman to
teach or to assume authority over a man; she
must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then
Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it
was the woman who was deceived and
became a sinner.
(1 Timothy 2:11-14 NIV)
… A woman should learn in quietness and full
submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to
assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one
deceived; it was the woman who
was deceived and became a sinner.
(1 Timothy 2:11-14 NIV)
… A woman
should learn in quietness
and full submission. I do not permit a woman to
teach or to assume authority over a man; she
must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then
Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it
was the woman who was deceived and
became a sinner. But women will be saved
through childbearing – if they continue in faith,
love and holiness with propriety.
(1 Timothy 2:11-14 NIV)
If anyone wants to provide leadership in the
church – good! But there are
preconditions ...
(1 Timothy 3:1 The Msg)
… A woman should learn in quietness and full
submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or
to assume authority over a man; she must be
quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the
woman who was deceived and became a
sinner. But women will be saved
through childbearing – if they continue in
faith, love and holiness with propriety.
(1 Timothy 2:11-15 NIV)
Women saved through childbearing?!
Women saved through childbearing?!
NOT anything to do with
being saved through
having children!
Women saved through childbearing?!
- Birth of the child – Jesus?
Women saved through childbearing?!
- Typological? Adam =
Jesus, Eve = church
Women saved through childbearing?!
Might it not mean that women need not
fear that they will miss out on God’s
salvation if they fulfil their role as Mothers,
bearing and nurturing children?
Derek and Dianne Tidball.
The message of women
In Christ’s family there can be no division
into Jew and non Jew, slave and free, male and
female. Among us you are all equal.
(Galatians 3:28 The Msg)
What is at stake is not the role of women as
much as the definition of the church as
authentic biblical community… Jesus
put a premium on the fact that the world would
recognize the disciples because of the way they
treated each other – with love. … the kind of
love that knew no greek or Jew, slave or free,
male or female. The kind of love that was a
deliberate attack on the prevalent culture which
insisted that a person’s value was based on
usefulness, position and cultural norms.
Danielle Strickland. The liberating truth, how Jesus
empowers women
Some people don’t ever feel aware of their
gender in relation to their calling, but I can say
that I’ve felt extremely aware of it in all the
twelve years I have been in ministry. Twice I’ve
been on the staff of churches that firmly
believed women should not be allowed to
preach or teach. Both places made me feel
second class – as if I couldn’t be taken as
seriously as men – like somehow I’d
misheard that God was calling me to
communicate His word. It took a lot of my
confidence away …
Vicky Beeching