SOCIÉTÉ JERSIAISE
HISTORY SECTION
www.société-jersiaise.org/history
MINUTES OF THE MEETING
HELD ON TUESDAY 16th JUNE 2015
IN THE MEMBERS’ ROOM AT 5.15pm
1.1
Present:
Mary Billot (Chairman), Stewart Hill (Secretary), Marie-Louise Backhurst,
Margaret Cabot, John Clarke, Ian Everson, Frank Falle, Bob Le Sueur,
Bronwyn Matthews, Rose Millow, Neil Molyneux, Shane Sweeney, Jean
Treleven and Nicky Westwood.
1.2
Apologies for absence
Henry Coutanche, Sarah Jordan, David Levitt, Frank Le Blancq, David Le
Maistre, Doreen Schofield-Fost, and Angela Swindell.
2
Minutes of the meeting of 19th May 2015 and amendments
Section 5 - General Don’s cob house is in St. Peter and not St. Brelade.
Section 6.1 – David Levitt had queried the first name of Le Gros. It was
confirmed that his entry in the baptism records specified Elie.
Section 6.2 and section 6.9 - should read “formerly” and not “formally”
Section 6.5 – Rockmount, Trinity, was rented by Dr. Chappuis and not
owned. [See 1881 to 1911 censuses].
Section 6.9 – The Metropole Hotel has vastly altered since 1834 and not
since Bob Le Sueur last visited.
Section 6.9 – The Halt is not in La Pepinière, Boulivot, Grouville, but is
almost opposite the Metropole Hotel, Roseville Street.
3
Matters arising from the minutes not covered by the agenda
Marie-Louise Backhurst commented that she had come across records of
two lunatic asylums in northern France where Elie Le Gros may have been
committed, one in St Servan-sur-Mer and another in Rennes, both in
Brittany. There was no record for him at Rennes.
Frank Falle reported that there would a memorial service at St. Saviour’s
Church at 10:00 am, 18th July 2015 as part of the Battle of Waterloo
functions.
Shane Sweeney added to his comment regarding a Military Museum at Fort
Regent by stating that the report in Sinel’s Chronology of Jersey showed its
existence at Fort Regent, 10 years before the fort was roofed.
Further to Anna Baghiani’s request for further information about William
Kennedy Laurie Dickson and assistance in locating the house La Cigale, in
the area of Rozel (either St Martin or Trinity), Mary Billot reported that La
Cigale is now possibly called Greystones or Normandie. William Kennedy
Laurie Dickson lived in properties in St Aubin/St Brelade as the Occupant,
because his wife was the Foncier. In 1933 they were at Vermont Cottage, St
Brelade (Le Coin). In 1934 and 1935, MHG Mosse, femme Dickson, La
Haule, St Brelade, is Foncier for a property in Rozel, St Martin, but not living
there. This must be La Cigale. This is easily checked in the Oxford DNB. It
was a second marriage for both of them; she was Margaret Helen Gordon,
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daughter of James Urquhart Mosse. Possibly Gordon was her first married
name, but this is not conclusive as it could be her mother’s maiden name
(Scottish tradition). Their only child was the one listed in the Victoria
College roll of honour. She can’t have owned it for long because her
husband died in Twickenham in September 1935, and she died in 1938.
4
Chairman’s communications
The Chairman confirmed that a Summer Walk would take place around
Grouville Church followed by a supper at the Beachcomber Hotel, on 21st
July in place of the usual meeting. Start time 5.30pm, parking at the
hotel. The meal would start at 7.00pm. It was also agreed that a menu
costing £15:95 for two courses (not including any alcohol or coffee) would
be selected by the Chairman and Secretary. The Secretary would circulate
the chosen menu and ask for the names of attendees; the closing date for
which would be 5th July 2015.
A copy of the leaflet advertising the Council for British Archaeology Festival
Société Jersiaise 2015 Programme had been circulated to section
members.
The book on Channel Islands Houses by John McCormack is likely to be
published late July 2015.
The Historic Buildings Sub-section hopes to visit Le Ponterrin (under new
ownership); Neil Molyneux and Robert Waterhouse will reconnoitre.
5
5.1
Members' contributions
President Neil Molyneux gave an update on the current situation regarding
digitisation. At present only Bulletins are available for web-site users
although in the next few days Le Cartulaire, Lettres Closes, Ancient
Petitions, and the Daniel Messervy journal would be made available.
Ongoing work includes the Extentes, Assize Roll (1299) and Appériements.
A JEP article on the project will be published.
Jean Treleven reported search difficulties; Bronwyn Matthews agreed to
lead a training seminar as the search mechanism is rather unsophisticated.
5.2
Bob Le Sueur recounted a recent Liberation Day trip that he had
undertaken where he had been the guide on behalf of the National Trust for
Jersey. He was transported in a well known local bus provided by Jersey
War Tunnels and had been provided details of its chequered history by Ian
Everson. A copy of his report is attached to these minutes. Bob commended
Ian on his detailed knowledge.
5.3
Whilst not of historical importance, Ian Everson noted that the Liberty Bus
Company had recently taken delivery of two new (to Jersey) double-decker
buses. Their previous owners had operated the 212 Walthamstow bus route
but following their failure to secure the renewed contract, the buses had
been sold.
5.4
Shane Sweeney asked whether the La Rosière and La Moye quarries were
at the same place. It was agreed that they were indeed different quarries
owned by Le Quesne. Shane was referred to Robin Cox's notes on quarries
and to back copies of the Société Bulletins.
5.5
Marie-Louise Backhurst advised the meeting that she would be going on a
study tour to Brittany (Pontivy area) led by John McCormack. The Chairman
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asked if she could give a talk on her visit and it was agreed that this would
be undertaken at the December meeting.
She raised the possibility of a mediaeval history conference in 2016. She
also said that the Public of Jersey now owns the seashore (contract passed
June 12th 2015).
Marie-Louise had also come across details of Public Asylums and asked if
any member could offer an explanation as to meaning of the various
classes allocated to in-mates. A general discussion ensued.
Secretary’s note: Marie-Louise later found out that the word ‘class’ does in a
sense refer to social class, but it is specifically used to distinguish payments
for patients. When the public asylum (there were private ones in Jersey)
opened, first-class patients would pay £100 a year, second-class would pay
£50 and third class £25. Fees might be paid by family and/or friends.
Fourth-class patients were paupers whose fees were paid by the parish in
which they were born. If they were non-native then the payment came from
the whole island.
There were distinctions in their treatment in that each class had different
sleeping accommodation with single rooms or dormitories (mostly four to a
room). There was also a separate second-class day room. It is possible
that food and clothing may have been different for paupers and for paying
patients, but it is not obvious from the records.
There were regular
entertainments and outings which were probably for all classes.
5.6
Rose Millow had now sufficient information to begin writing about influential
musicians. This would include Edwin Matthew Lott (organist born Jersey
1835 who taught Sir Henry Wood), William Williams (organist at St Mark’s,
1858) and Hans Hartung Stevens (German organist at St Mark’s in the
1850s). Rose requested members to let her know if they could supply
further information regarding Stevens. [See 1851 and 1861 censuses under
Hartung].
5.7
Frank Falle gave details of another Governor's Walk that takes place on
Sunday 19th July 2015. It would be around Trinity and would include the
unveiling of a plaque for Les Augrès Manor (Daniel Dumaresq).
This led to a discussion regarding Manors and Manor Houses. A Manor was
defined as an area of land, generally farm land. The Manor House was
defined as a large house which was the “capital” and administrative centre
of the Manor. Whilst it was generally located within the Manor, if the
occupants moved to another location, the Manor House could change
location and be outside the Manor boundaries.
6
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Date of next meeting:
Tuesday, 15th September 2015 at 5.15 pm, in the Members' Room
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