Math Department Minutes – 10/16/2012
Announcements
1. Construction
a. Contact Dan with “punch list” items.
b. Math software should be installed on all classroom PCs. If not, email
helpdesk@elgin.edu and copy me with details regarding the needed software.
c. Adjunct faculty office is in progress.
 We will get another table for the north wall and two more computers.
 The large rectangular tables will move into the conference room.
 A large white board will be installed in the conference room as well.
 Square tables like those in G will be purchased to replace the circular ones.
2. 096/098 curriculum
a. Writing course description to submit curriculum change – complete (attached to email)
b. Textbook selection – in progress
c. Develop review module for students placing into 098 – waiting for textbook selection
d. Determine placement cutoffs – postponed until new sequence is implemented
3. Textbooks – Expect an email from Dan regarding Spring 2013 regarding your selection for any
courses with Pearson texts (120 and below, except 097). You will need to specify if you require
only the text, MyMathLab only, or the bundle of the unbound text and MyMathLab
Old Business
1. Honors – Catherine and Dan visited Senate to request proportional membership on the Honors
committee.
Dan followed up with the chair of the honors committee to see if there actually needs to be a
constitutional amendment to change it to a standing committee. This is being looked into. He also
followed up on Gary’s original plan and the committee had misunderstood exactly what was being
proposed so Dan is working with Jamie Pang to see if this plan can be implemented. We could definitely
do a learning community that will allow one section of math 101 to be cross-listed with a one hour
seminar that honors students would take. We are checking to see if the department can do the same
thing for all sections of 101.
New Business
1. Assessment results and selecting 2012/2013 courses to asses (Lauren)
We assessed two courses – MTH 097 and MTH 120.
Math 097 embedded 3 questions into the chapter tests spring of this year. Approximately 119 students
(due to drops) participated. The learning outcomes involved were measuring angles using a protractor
and using similarity to solve application problems. For the use of protractors, knowing angles have to
add to 180 degree interfered with answers. It was decided that there was a problem with the testing
instrument. Instructors felt students could use the protractor correctly but adjusted for the angle sum
which altered the data. For the outcome involving similarity, students had trouble understanding what
they were being asked to do. The question was raised about whether the picture in the problem might
be a source of the problem. It was suggested that the drawing include two people on either side of the
river and the question ask how far apart they are. This problem allowed a calculator. Lauren will email
the instructors of the course with the results.
In Math 120, students did good on questions involving calculation but showed difficulty on problemsolving ability (interpret or predict in the question). It was decided that there needs to be an emphasis
placed on this in the future. Dan will email the results to the whole department
In MTH 090, data was collected that compared computer assisted classes against traditional classes and
found the traditional classes did better on the final. Eva is also working on revising the final as a
response to the department meeting last month.
It was decided that we need to assess the current MTH 098 need to have data to compare with
redesign. It was debated as to whether it would be better to embed questions in quizzes spaced
throughout the semester so that it would not interfere with the final or to continue with the use of a
capstone measure in the final. It was decided that the final puts everything together and we can see
what has been retained from the entire developmental sequence. It was suggested that approximately
10 questions would be embedded now and then reembedded in the future course. These questions will
be selected by the members of the previous committee (Moushon, Martin, Lawrence, and Anderko)
with Teri taking the lead. We will also use the questions selected for assessing MTH098 in MTH 099 to
compare and analyze student performance.
The question was raised about whether or not there would be any advantage on assessing the topics
that are being dropped from the beginning of the semester in the course redesign of MTH 098 to
address the question of whether or not students are suffering from the elimination of the redundancy.
It was decided that this should be a side project that measures these throughout the semester after the
new course design starts.
It was decided that we will do an assessment of MTH 134 next. In this assessment, we will address the
issue of the difficulty we are having covering all of the material currently listed in the course outcomes.
The question was raised about whether or not we could increase Calculus I to a 5 hour course and move
the material on logs and exponentials into the first semester course. It was also suggested that we
assess the entire calculus sequence to make sure all of the required material is being covered at the
necessary levels. It was suggested that this could be handled at least partially through an anonymous
survey tool. It was also pointed out that the calculus 1 follow up needs to be updated on the sheet
containing the summaries of assessments. Ken, Chalice, Dan, Nicole, and Kris expressed interest in
serving for this. Dan will contact Harry to find out if he is interested in joining in
2. Should Mth090 have a pre-req? COMPASS shows cutoffs for Mth090 vs Mth085 (through
Annabelle Rhoades’ office), but it is not enforced by Datatel.
grade
A
B
C
Fall 1999 – Summer 2011
Placement
085, but
085, and took
090
took 090*
085*
24%
21%
20%
17%
12%
30%
10%
6%
10%
51%
39%
60%
D
F
W
13%
14%
0%
11%
16%
30%
25%
31%
10%
n=5,339
n=181
n=10
* Roughly 2.5% of COMPASS takers (100 out of
4,000 in 2011) have an 085 placement. Only
about 25-30 end up taking 085 or 090.
This was discussed extensively and it was decided that Dan would contact Annabelle to find out what
MTH 085 does, what paths students follow if they succeed, what paths they follow if they fail, and how
students are currently being advised. Two questions raised that will influence the department’s decision
include
a. How many of the 085 students are pursuing an associate’s degree?
b. Would we be doing a disservice to the 39% who succeeded? More roadblocks and
hurdles can be trouble in the curriculum committee.
The consensus was that we would like to hear more from Annabelle as we feel she is better equipped to
advise students/guide students to the proper choice of classes rather than a one-size fits all prerequisite. Another issue was raised regarding the statistics themselves. Do the statistics reflect the
number of attempts it took the students to get the successful grades? Should there be some form of
intervention for students who fail repeatedly?
3. Placement advice (requirement?) for students returning after a long gap (from counseling)
After discussion, it was agreed to continue with the current policy as we only see two or three of these a
semester. Currently, counseling sends students in this situation to the department to ask permission to
take the placement exam and then the department approves them.
4. 1 hour research class for STEM majors (dean McGee)
It was suggested that we not approve this unless we can have a dual enrollment situation that will allow
for honors credit for those students interested/participating in the honors program. It was pointed out
that both Brookfield Zoo and the Shedd Aquarium have data available that just needs willing people to
analyze it and this would lend itself to a meld of biology and math students.
5. Integration Smackdown (Kris)
Kris will be organizing an integration contest for students currently enrolled in Calc II or above. She will
contact James about available funds. She will also contact all current instructors of these courses to get
a potential head count and with all the details. It was suggested that if this is successful, to look into the
possibility of something similar with differentiation for Calc I students.
6. Mth102 content (Chalyce) Volunteer Opportunity
The issue was raised about the difficulty encountered in trying to cover all the material listed in the
course outcomes. This is an IAI course, and so we need to form a committee to determine how to
address things differently so that we satisfy the IAI requirements and can cover all the material in the
course. It was decided to reconvene the textbook/assessment committee to address the issues.
Chalyce, Dan and Naima have agreed to participate. Anyone else interested should contact Chalyce.
7. Possible mentoring program for adjuncts (dean McGee)
The suggested mentoring system would involve meeting with the instructors 3 times during the
semester – paid $25 per meeting. As payment is involved, this needs to go through ECCFA. It is a
question of communicating policy, how to deal with students, etc. more so than content. One major
question that was raised was whether adjuncts would be eligible to serve as mentors. It was felt that
this would be especially beneficial for new adjuncts. The concern was also raised that there is a clear
commitment to keep this separate from the evaluation process.
8. Geogebra (Catherine)
Charges have been made that the people who developed the algorithms aren’t being properly
compensated. This accusation has been leveled by Sketchpad developers. The ICTM board hasn’t made
a decision, but Catherine felt we should be aware of the situation.
9. Adjunct office space (Dave)
The concern was raised that there are too many people in too small a space. The other day, there were
8 instructors in the office at one time and there weren’t sufficient resources for those 8 people let alone
if others move in. We should have in the notes that this office wasn’t intended for all adjuncts and it
should be voluntary as to who moves into it. Everything in the plans got downsized to make room for
more classrooms, and so we need to look for alternatives. Although we haven’t lost total space, the
adjuncts are spread out throughout various buildings and this does not lend itself to mentoring and
working together. Dave suggested that we swap the Math Lab with the adjunct office. He suggested
there would still be plenty of room for the Math Lab in D223 and this would give much needed room for
the adjuncts in the existing Math Lab. The other faculty present acknowledged the difficulties inherent
in the adjunct shared office space, but no recommendation was made to switch the two spaces.
10. D300 students taking Calc II Fall 2013 (dean McGee)
It was decided to open an additional section of Calc II for the fall and to let the students mix in to the
multiple sections rather than having a cohort in one class. This has been shown to be beneficial both for
the high school students and the college students. The issue was raised to have seats reserved in each
of the sections to allow for the discrepancy in registration times.
11. Placement (Dan) Volunteer Opportunity
We need a committee to think about the placement model as a whole. Last meeting we discussed the
possibility of changing cutoffs for placement. This committee would look at compass as a whole and
how successful the current model is. The committee would then make a proposal to the department
and the department would decide what further actions/measures to take. It was pointed out that IBHE
and ICCB have 3 task forces and one is looking at placement across the state and Catherine is on that
committee. The ideas that were being discussed there included using multiple measures in deciding
how to place students. Results are not imminent there and so it would be beneficial for the department
to start our own process. Dan will email the department looking for volunteers.
Not on the agenda:
1. Please limit use of the copier in D218 during peak demand times so that everyone will be able to
have access. Please use the copy center for large jobs.
2. Teri had an update from the foundation. We have $1313.16 balance in the account so we will
award two 250.00 scholarships in the spring. The recipients will be chosen by a committee that
will meet during the spring semester. Please refer students that you think would be eligible to
elgin.edu/scholarships. The committee will choose from those eligible students who apply
through the website.