Jane Rowe #1054
UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM
Interview #1054
ROWE, JANE
Rowe, Jane (1932-)
Occupation:
At UW:
Interviewed:
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July 25, 2009, August 15, 2009 and August 29, 2009
Linda Lenzke
Kelly Rupp
1 hour 31 minutes; 50 minutes (p1) and 60 minutes (p2); and
Madison’s LGBT Community, 1960s to present
Abstract: In her 2009 interview with Linda Lenzke, Jane Rowe details her life in
Madison. She spoke of the time period between the 1940s and present and of the
following topics: lesbianism, feminism, parenting, and community outreach. This
interview was conducted for inclusion into the project, Madison’s LGBT
Community, 1960s-Present, part of the UW-Madison Oral History Program’s
general collection.
Key Words: Madison (WI), feminism; Equal Rights Amendment, Madison
Institute for Social Legislation, Alternative Family Ordinance, GLADE,
GLISTEN, National Organization for Women, Fair Wisconsin, Lesbian Moms
Network, Apple Island, Generic Recovery, Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival,
Kay Hagen, Kay Clarenbach, Wish House, Fair Wisconsin.
First Interview Session (July 25, 2009): Digital File
Time
Keywords
00:00:00 Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction
00:00:29 Question: Background? Answer: Rowe was born on Good Friday in Lancaster, WI, in
1932. The family moved to Whitefish Bay, a suburb of Milwaukee, at 2 years old.
She enjoyed school, but didn’t fit into the community as a tomboy. Rowe’s mother
was a teacher who grew up on a farm. She enjoyed everything about Whitefish Bay.
Her father, being a teacher, like the school system but not the broader community.
Her father was a drummer and performed in bands.
00:06:13 [No question.] Friendships with women were very important to Rowe. She described
an important friendship in grade school. During summers, she escaped to her
mother’s family farm.
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00:10:09 [No question.] Her cousins on the farm lived a more relaxed, freer life. Her tomboy
life was more accepted. She adored her grandfather and emulated his masculine walk.
00:12:13 [No question.] Rowe recognized that power rested with men. She was a militant
feminist as a child. Her mother was a feminist; she ran everything like a CEO. Her
mother stayed at home and made lunch every day. Seeing her mother clean the house
and her social life did not make Rowe want to be a housewife. She planned to live her
life differently.
00:16:48 [No question.] Rowe’s models were female teachers, particularly those in high
school. She assumed some were lesbians, but she didn’t learn that term until a trip to
New York during junior year of high school. That word wasn’t used in Whitefish
Bay.
00:20:35 [No question.] Rowe had a crush on her female French teacher and gym teacher, but
she dated boys and went to dances in high school. She was not interested in any of the
relationships; they were convenient.
00:24:21 [No question.] Rowe fell in love with a boy from Montford, where she lived with her
grandparents during a polio outbreak. Junior Nelson was an unacademic Norwegian
farm boy. She wanted to be a farmer’s wife with six kids. It was a sexually “pure”
relationship. Junior broke up with Rowe because they were different people. She was
crushed.
00:30:32 [No question.] Rowe’s Grandfather became very ill and with her grandmother caring
for him, Rowe was left to her own devises most of the time. In her senior year, Rowe
started hanging out with a group with whom she drank alcohol and drove around
drunk. This, ironically, prepared her for her college career and eventual alcoholism.
She led a double life: drunk in Montford; sober in Whitefish Bay. Rowe decided to go
to UW-Madison because her friend went there and she originally wanted to stay close
to home. Tragically, her friend since childhood, Gingi, died from leukemia their
Senior year in High School and Rowe comments that with Gingi’s death Rowe felt
like her childhood died as well.
00:39:08 [No question.] At UW-Madison Rowe roomed with best friend Jo in a cramped dorm.
She dated a man for most of freshman year. It was easy and comfortable, but not love.
Rowe pledged Delta Gamma, a sorority to please her mother. Her “big sister” gave
her a fake ID and Rowe drank a significant amount. There were blind-date events and
Rowe dated a football player.
00:48:37 [No question.] While the partying and drinking in her sorority life continued, Rowe
was a serious student during the week, and was in an honors program. She loved
academics, especially geology.
00:53:14 [No question.] She worked for the Daily Cardinal and studied journalism. A friend
from the dorms came from the Detroit area, where Rowe got an internship at the
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newspaper library for the Detroit Times. The society editor wore her slip and hat
during the hot summer. That summer she lived at a YWCA type place with a girl
form Kentucky who wanted to be a concert pianist.
00:58:44 [No question.] Sophomore year Rowe was also in the sorority and got more serious
with her studies. One of her teachers told her not to study Journalism because she
could already write. During the height of the McCarthy era in Wisconsin, Rowe had
an opportunity to interview Howard K. Beale, a historian and Ogden Nash, a poet, for
the Daily Cardinal. She did not feel any gender bias at the newspaper.
01:07:15 [No question.] During this era Rowe was not aware of strong attractions to men or
women. Academics were her passion. During sophomore year, she met and fell in
love with Lloyd Besant, a graduate student in theater. They started dating and had an
affectionate but asexual relationship. This was 1951/1952.
01:13:52 [No question.] Rowe and Jo were anxious and restless so they decided to bicycle
around Europe. They moved into a co-op because it was cheaper, and both got jobs in
the UW Library catalogue department. Rowe describes their summer length trip,
which included a 9-day ship ride to get to Europe. They slept in parks and hostels,
and biked across the continent. Rowe was eager to get home to Lloyd.
01:28:56 [No question.] Rowe and Lloyd eloped in Chicago. They spent their honeymoon
night at the Edgewater Hotel, which was a disaster. They moved to Wausau where
Lloyd had taken a teaching job.
01:31:28 End of First Interview Session
Second Interview Session, part 1 (August 15, 2009): Digital File
Time
Keywords
00:00:00 Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction
00:00:42 Question: Continue where we left off. Answer: Rowe and Lloyd moved to Wausau,
WI for him to work as a high school teacher. Rowe worked for a men’s clothing store.
00:06:30 [No question.] Rowe was uncomfortable with her role as a housewife. She cooked
dinners, did laundry, and wore high heels and skirts. It horrified her that she was
turning into her mother.
00:13:20 [No question.] Wausau had no local culture and most of the new teachers quit at the
end of the year. They returned to Madison and Rowe started her junior year of
college. Lloyd taught English at a high school. Their personal relationship was not
strong. Rowe did not feel an attraction to women or men at this time.
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00:17:14 [No question.] Rowe and Lloyd went to England for the summer, hitchhiking across
the country. It was freeing. They stayed with a friend’s rich family. Rowe began to
think about having a family.
00:23:00 [No question.] Upon returning to Madison, Rowe and Lloyd moved in temporarily
with a friend. Their downstairs neighbors were lesbians. It was her first introduction
to lesbianism.
00:25:10 [No question.] Rowe started her Master’s Degree and planned for a Fulbright
scholarship in New Zealand. But she became pregnant with their first child, Jacques.
They were committed parents.
00:30:10 [No question.] Lloyd started having random affairs with men. It didn’t bother Rowe.
Friends came over for dinner often, and Rowe liked the camaraderie. Rowe became
pregnant again with their planned second child, Michele.
00:34:00 [No question.] Lloyd got sick and had to quit work. Rowe had to get a full-time job.
She became a school librarian and loved it.
00:39:40 [No question.] Home life was exhausting as Rowe tried to fulfill her traditional role.
Jocelyn a British woman, moved in upstairs. Rowe was very attracted to her. Maggie
entered her life and they had an affair. It felt how relationships were supposed to feel.
00:45:35 [No question.] Rowe and Lloyd began to live separate lives. They began to drink
heavily and fight. Their academic ambitions and children kept them together. Rowe
became pregnant with their third child, Chris.
Second Interview Session, part 2 (August 15, 2009): Digital File
00:00:00 [No question.] Rowe and Lloyd struggled living in the country with kids. This was
during the Cuban Missile Crisis. They moved to St. Charles. Lloyd started attending
church. Rowe became good friends with Michele’s Sunday school teacher, Nancy.
Rowe noticed that relationships with women were significant for her whereas her
marriage was not.
00:07:42 [No question.] The family returned to Madison for Lloyd to finish his PhD. Rowe
became pregnant with the fourth child, Blaise.
00:09:55 [No question.] Lloyd got a 10-month assignment in New Bedford, Massachusetts. His
boss’s wife, Midge, became Rowe’s best friend. Lloyd was reassigned to Evanston,
IL. Rowe convinced Midge to go to library school. The house was full of kids on the
weekend and Rowe loved it.
00:18:25 [No question.] Lloyd made some money on the stock market. He quit his job and they
took the kids to Europe for the semester. Rowe described the trip at length. Jacques
went into puberty during the trip and was disagreeable. The family spent time with
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Jocelyn in England, went to Paris, and saw beggars in Rome. They saw the Pope at
the Vatican. In Mykonos, Lloyd went out with men at night. Rowe was lonely and
drank heavily.
00:31:25 [No question.] The family returned to the U.S. Lloyd got a job with the board of trade
in Chicago and commuted. Meanwhile they lived in Madison in a house on Regent
Street. The marriage was not strong. Rowe and Elthia met again; they had an affair.
00:37:20 [No question.] Jacques was 13 and found naked and drunk on Regent Street. This was
the start of his alcoholism and subsequent drug abuse.
00:39:05 [No question.] The marriage was deteriorating. Lloyd took Jacques and Michele for
several weeks without Rowe’s knowing where they were. She started divorce
proceedings, which took 2 years. Her relationship with Elthia continued. Elthia’s
husband did not care.
00:42:30 [No question.] Elthia was a wine-maker. Rowe became a maintenance alcoholic
instead of a periodic one. On Thursday nights the choir came over and they drank
heavily.
00:47:00 [No question.] Once the divorce was finalized, the relationship dynamic with Elthia
shifted. Rowe drank heavily each day. A friend saw her alcoholism and confronted
her about it, but Rowe wasn’t interested in changing. Months later, after blacking out
one night, she finally recognized her alcoholism. She went to a meeting, identified
with the stories of the men there, and got sober.
End of Second Interview Session
Third Interview Session (August 29, 2009): Digital File
Time
Keywords
00:00:00 Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction
00:00:17 Question: Rowe is about to describe her second marriage. Answer: 1975 Rowe fell in
love with a man she met in AA named Ben. There were quite a few years between
them, he being a WWII Veteran and she having been in 4th grade during the bombing
of Pearl Harbor. Ben was appealing to Rowe because of his age, his being a WWII
Vet and his association with AA which Rowe found to be a wonderful experience.
00:02:40 [No question.] Ben and Rowe married mostly because her parents were
uncomfortable with the couple living together. Ben had three sons from his previous
marriage and together with Rowe the group made a pretty happy family. Rowe, who
had previously been asexual during her recovery from alcoholism, found with AA her
sex drive returned and Ben turned out to be a very good partner. Ben and Rowe had
lots of friends from AA threw several parties. The excitment she experienced from
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her alcohol consumption was replaced with more positive thrills like motorcycle
riding. Ben and she bought motocycles and Rowe comments how besides sex, riding
was their greatest bond during that time. Ben even taught Chris, Rowe’s middle child,
to fix motorcycles and got him a job as a mechanic.
00:07:19 [No question.] Rowe mentions that although the marriage began within this
environment of excitment it “wobbled a lot.” Ben took poor care of himself, did not
eat right or exercise enough and developed many health problems. He suffered a
stroke and was forced to retire which led to a very sedentary lifestyle and friction
between Rowe and Ben in the house.
00:08:50 [No question.] Ben’s new life as a retiree found him slipping back into this old
“womanizing” ways. Although Rowe was unaware of his affairs, she found out by a
fellow AA member and friend of the couple chose to confess of her illicit romance
with Ben to Rowe as part of her own recovery process. This ended Rowe and Ben’s
marriage.
00:09:48 [No question.] In spite of her failed relationship with Ben, Rowe did not reject AA
along with Ben, something she is very thankful for.
00:10:26 [No question.] At this same time, Rowe began falling in love with a woman, Marcia,
who she worked with on a school committee. Their relationship became intense and
Rowe moved in with Marcia. It was “very unsuccessful” and lasted one year. Rowe
remarks that Marcia’s decision to not attend the Womyns Music Fesitval led Rowe to
realize that her relationship with Marcia had ended.
00:15:00 [No question.] After leaving Marcia, and refusing to move back in with her husband,
Ben Rowe found herself homeless for a period of time. She stayed with a friend until
she could move back into her house on Farley Ave.
00:15:22 [No question.] With the end of “marriage number 2” and “lesbian relationship
number 2” Rowe found herself on her own and she describes feeling free and that it
was “really sort of fun!” She was well connected in the lesbian community and had a
circle of lesbian friends. She was asked by one of these friends to look after a woman,
over Christmas and New Years, who had only recently begun addiction treatment and
was new to Madison. Rowe threw a New Years Eve party and invited the woman.
That woman was Vij (Vera Jean), Rowe’s future long-term friend and housemate. Vij
connected Rowe with Lizzards, an over 40 lesbian group. Through this group, at a
party Rowe would meet Bea (71 years old), a women with whom she would share a
“highly charged” romance that lasted 11 years until Bea’s death.
00:20:24 [No question.] Bea and Rowe “had many things not in common” but still the
relationship was great. Bea’s friends were older and from what Rowe calls, “the
Boston Marriage Era.” They were very closeted. Although they were interesting
women and quite good professional role models, all being very successful in their
carrers, as lesbians Rowe felt they were “dated.”
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00:21:54 [No question.] Vij and Rowe, at this time, moved Vij’s mother into their house and
tried to all live together. The living situation ultimately did not work out; Vij suffered
many health and emotional problems, due to her own alcoholism and attempts at
recovery and these problems caused a rift between Rowe and Vij. The house was
often filled with tension and Vij could have rather violent outbursts at times. At this
time, too, Rowe’s youngest son was diagnosed with carcinoid cancer which was not
as understood then as it is today. He was in much pain and Rowe spent a lot of time
taking him to various clinics and hosptials during his three year long diagnosis and
treatment. Bea was very supportive during this trying time in Rowe’s life.
00:25:00 [No question.] Once again, Rowe finds herself without a place to live. Life with Vij
became too unbearable so Rowe starts looking for a new house. She found a house
through a gay friend of her’s. Bea continued to live with Vij and her mother, so Bea
and Rowe’s relationship was sometimes strained due to Bea’s continued involvement
with that household. But overall it was a good arrangement.
00:27:07 [No question.] Feb. 22, 1994, Rowe got a call at school that Bea had been taken to the
hospital after suffering a stroke that morning. Rowe’s principle allowed Rowe to
leave immediately for the ER. Bea was unconscious at the hospital. The hospital gave
Rowe “spousal treatment” while she was visiting Bea and Rowe comments on how
only in Madison could that have happened. During Bea’s treatment and recovery she
had a doctor who advocated fiercely for Rowe and Bea’s status as a couple and
developed a strong bond with both of them. Her efforts paved the way for the
continued spousal treatment that Rowe and Bea enjoyed throughout Bea’s recovery.
00:29:40 [No question.] Bea was ultimately discharged to a nursing home half paralyzed. She
began a strenuous time of intense physical therapy. Despite her past years of athletic
skill and her strong willingness to work hard, Bea could not gain the ability to walk
again. Bea had suffered a heart attack while still in the hospital and a second heart
attack during her time in the nursing home set her recovery back immensely. Because
of her lack of response to the treatment, Medicare cut off the funding for her
treatment. Faced with bills amounting to $5,000/mo for her room at the nursing home,
Rowe convinced Bea to move in to her house.
00:30:30 [No question.] Bea moved into Rowe’s house. Rowe set her up in a first floor
bedroom and built a ramp at the front step for Bea’s wheelchair. They even obtained a
hospital bed that had once been used by Kay Clarenbach, a famous Madison feminist
icon. Despite Bea’s illness and all the went with caring for her, Rowe remembers this
time as a very loving time in their relationship. Bea’s mind slowly faded and friends
stopped by saying their last goodbyes. Through the nursing help Rowe hired to care
for Bea, they found allies in the community: a transgender nurse who identified with
their being lesbian and who was the first recipient of sexual reassignment surgery at
the UW Hospital, a male nurse who simply offered his help whenever Rowe should
need it. Rowe was please with the level of care they found in the hired nursing help.
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00:35:40 [No question.] On the morning of Feb. 22, 1995, exactly a year to the day she had had
her stroke, Rowe found that Bea had died in her sleep overnight. Rowe found much
support in the lesbian community and especially the substance abuse recovery lesbian
community.
00:38:20 [No question.] After Bea’s death, Rowe found a great sense of community as a single
woman. She and Bea had helped establish Apple Island years before and Rowe
returned to that group. She joined the Generic Recovery group at Apple Island and
later helped to find a separate meeting place that became Wish House. Rowe helped
to organize with other Apple Island members a Kay Hagen visit and lecture.
00:42:40 [No question.] Rowe continues her brief history of Wish House, the women-only
recovery support group the grew out of Rowe’s and others desire for a women-only
(and smoke free) recovery support group. The support group is still active but now
only meets Tuesday nights and has about 12 members.
00:44:57 [No question.] The history of Wish House and the changes it went through parallel
Rowe’s perception of what happened in the greater lesbian community over the years.
She points towards a process of assimilation that occurred in Madison. As the larger
city population accepted these women and they formed connections with people
based on other matters besides being lesbian, the need for strictly lesbian groups and
clubs disappeared.
00:46:04 [No question.] Rowe met a woman through the ongoing Wish House Tuesday night
meetings who asked Rowe to be her sponsor. Rowe agreed to an initial meeting and
was surprised by being given a love letter at the end of the meeting. This triggered
Rowe to send a response, of course the sponsorship was impossible at that point, but
Rowe was excited to pursue a romantic relationship with this woman. Their romance
took off quickly and Rowe and Carol moved in together. Rowe took much pleasure in
weekends at Carol’s family farm and cabin on the Mississippi River. They often
invited friends to join them at parties and gatherings at the country places. Rowe and
Carol are still in love and living together to this day.
00:54:11 [No question.] Rowe and Carol’s parties on the farm and at the cabin were the last of
their “purely lesbian” centered lifestyle. They were old enough to have stopped all
sports involvement and actively sought out a church that was inclusive but not
exclusively lesbian.
00:55:55 [No question.] Rowe comments on the assimilation question again and talks briefly
about her experience with assimilation at her workplace. She was part of two teacher
groups at work. These groups bonded over their work or their shared experiences and
interests and were made up of a mixture of heterosexual and homosexual women.
00:58:47
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[No question.] Rowe summarizes her life today and how because of the assimilation
of the lesbian culture into the greater society she has fewer outlets of lesbian
connection: her relationship with Carol, her own daughter’s being lesbian and her
Jane Rowe #1054
relationships (Rowe and Carol no longer attend the MI Womyn’s Music Festival but
her daughter and partner always buy them souvenir T-shirts when they attend), the
participation by their church in Gay Pride every year, and the recovery movement
they continue with and their work with Fair Wisconsin. Rowe is writing her memoirs
as well.
01:18:43 End of Third Interview Session
End of Oral History #1054
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