St John the Divine
Redevelopment Task Force
Patricia, David, Graeme, Deborah, Robert
Agenda for Meeting: May 11th
1. Review/Approval of Agenda
2. Review of Background Discussion/Research to date
Discussions to provide overview of history, background to project
Research into Victoria real estate market
Looked at component pieces i.e. non profit social service hubs, Dockside Green
proposed Sustainability Centre
Looked at development model options to see what was viable in this market so
talked with other developers, Habitat for Humanity, other organizations active in
the sector
Work on the pro forma
- if Parish wants to move into the creation of a development master plan,
talked with a number of funders i.e. Real Estate Foundation, CMHC etc.
Updates
Another conversation with Brenda McBain of CitySpaces (working with the three
co-location organizations)
Organizations called Robert yesterday (Tues May 10) – have defined their needs but
have to map that on to their ability to pay both from capital perspective and
operational perspective
- what aspects of this project could influence those numbers i.e. tenure as land
lease not rental
They are interested in hearing where we are going next
Gut feeling is that if we come back with “here is where we are headed, let’s jointly
plan a building and develop a joint pro forma” they would be interested
Met with Chris LeFevre – market developer
Interested in his take from a market perspective
Affordable rental would work on this location but from a market developer the
numbers don’t work
Small units and studios with no parking is the only option for this site
He used to have fears about building units with no parking but right downtown it is
not a problem
If leasehold, no interest for him and his opinion that leasehold would be a problem
(leasehold purchase)
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One idea is to sell a small portion of the site and roll the revenue into a rental project
on the site
Kay Millship from Great Victoria Housing – explained the kinds of housing they are
doing
Non profit housing providers are having to broaden their view of how to do housing
because there are no BC Housing funding
Have to do different kinds of housing i.e. reasonably priced market and donations
from others
“workforce housing”
Spoke with Tim Pringle of the Real Estate Foundation
Action: Letter of interest due next week
3. Review of Draft Business plan
Clarified information to/from ASH
ASH will be expunged from the business plan
We have nothing to show a vestry at this point
Do a one pager that we can hand out on a Sunday
Graeme’s opinion is that we have permission to go ahead into master planning and
role definition
3.1 Process:
Agreed:
Finalize business plan
Undertake master planning
Schematic design and pro formas for two buildings – non profit (with three partner
organizations) and affordable market
At same time continue conversation with three partner organizations
Through those discussions our development model will emerge
There is a process that needs to happen with the Diocese on an ongoing basis
This will take awhile
Diocese and First Met meet Robert; Christine meet First Met’s architect
3.2 Options for Development Structure
 Church as developer
 Development partnership
 Hybrid
Agreed that we go with hybrid right now for next phase of master planning
Will continue to discuss
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3.3 ASH Proposal vs. Criteria
Will develop process by which development partners/managers/developers are
considered or evaluated and brought into the conversation
Also talk with non profit housing providers as potential development partners to
ensure we have covered off our options.
Understand from Robert that there are other options in addition to ASH and we
should do our due diligence to see what models they would bring to the table
Robert will touch base with Henry Kamphoff to plumb the lay of the non-profit
housing development landscape in terms of partnership and management models
3.4 Financial Pro-formas
4. Discussion of Next Steps
Funding
Will move forward with application to the Real Estate Foundation
CMHC $10,000 to $20,000 is forgivable if the project does not proceed/repayable if
it proceeds
Also available is $100,000 loan from CMHC
Vancity is also keen
- Robert will make inquiry and send out information
Victoria Foundation – DC will set up meeting with Marg Rose to bring Robert in by
phone
DC will work with Robert on the Real Estate Foundation letter of interest
Patricia will work with Robert on the Vancity opportunity
BC Housing may have some funding
- Robert will check with Henry Kamphoff
The meeting with the City today is the first introduction and next meeting will
definitely be with Christine
Master plan will be formulated with the City, which will be the basis of a rezoning
application
4.1 Church review/consultation/approvals
Develop policies for Task Force decision making/governance
- Parish gives mandate to undertake planning and engaging third parties in the
project
- Task Force makes decisions through criteria/processes that are approved by
the Parish
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Typical model is to set up a separate non profit entity with shared leadership
between the church and community
First United did not want to go down that road because as soon as one sets up an
entity that is separate from the church then it behaves differently
Need very clear mandate from Diocese to Parish to Task Force so that development
partners can rely on
4.2 Next phase scope and budget
5. Discussion of Church Operational Needs
Do existing church uses meet the actual needs of the Parish (physically)
Operationally – what needs does the church have over the long term
Need to have a conversation about space use, efficiency of space use, space needs
Ask Katherine MacKenzie to be involved in a discussion, with Larry as well
DC will follow up with Nikki about completing the space use assessment
This is fundamental to considering the redevelopment
6. Other Business
Graeme will review Patricia’s executive summary and put something in front of
Parish Council next week
Staff will released that information to the Parish
Environmental Sustainability – what are we thinking about?
At minimum LEED Gold
This project has to exercise leadership – raise the bar significantly on what it means
to be environmental stewards
Not just net zero, but gives back in terms of energy
- maybe distributed energy site
- solar panels on roof of church
Can get a revitalization tax exemption for 10 years if act as a distributed energy site
- that may make the leasehold housing more attractive
No external irrigation
50-70 percent reduction in energy is doable
The last 20 percent of energy saving takes public money
Building will likely not give us a huge energy saving margin
Demand management (i.e. low consumptive uses)
- design smart well insulated buildings that have very low demand
Potential to investigate is to use heat pump technology to tap into the lake/stream
under the church, or air source
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Cost of community animation has to be factored into the pro formas
- for every dollar put into operational costs have to put into community
animation
Part of the job description of property manager is to run the program of community
animation
School of Social Work at Uvic has students who do practicums
DC will ask Chair of Dogwood Initiative what kind of capital they have for space
Rumour that Pacific Opera Victoria also has capital
Task Force needs to make a decision about talking with Christine and inviting her to
be part of the next phase, as well as resolving the outstanding invoice issue
Propose that Graeme talk with Christine
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