Extended Interview With Luis J. Rodriguez
Following is a telephone interview with noted author Luis J. Rodriguez on February 15,
2012. Interviewers within the prison are Arnulfo T. Garcia, Editor-in-Chief of the San
Quentin News, JulianGlenn Padgett, Chairman of the San Quentin Journalism Guild,
Larry Schneider, administrative head of the San Quentin Media Center (film and TV),
and Troy Williams of the Media Center’s in-prison televised San Quentin Prison Report.
The interview was used as the basis for a Page 1 story in the February issue of the San
Quentin News.
[Telephone rings]
RODRIGUEZ: Hello?
SCHNEIDER: Hi Luis, this is Larry Schneider.
RODRIGUEZ: Hey, Larry. How are you doing man? How’s it going this
morning?
SCHNEIDER: I’m fine. Pretty good. We’re going to record this.
RODRIGUEZ: OK.
SCHNEIDER: So that they can go back and check their facts and make sure they
quote you correctly and everything else. OK?
RODRIGUEZ: OK.
SCHNEIDER: [To San Quentin Media representatives] are you guys rolling?
GARCIA: How are you doing, Senor Rodriguez?
RODRIGUEZ: Hi, my brother, how’s it going?
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GARCIA: All right. This is Arnulfo [Garcia], Editor-in-Chief of the San Quentin
News, and I have two guys with me that I’m going to have introduce themselves
so you know whom you’re talking to.
RODRIGUEZ: OK.
WILLIAMS: I’m Troy Williams from the San Quentin SQTV. I produce the San
Quentin Prison Report. I’m one of the guys who was filming you last time you
came here with Kid Cat.
RODRIGUEZ: Oh yes, good.
PADGETT: And I’m Julian Padgett, I’m a staff writer for San Quentin News.
Nice to meet you.
RODRIGUEZ: Nice meeting you.
GARCIA: Hey, Luis, so we understand that you’ve been around the world, and
we know that you’ve had some of the experience that we’re going through right
now, so we’re going to continue speaking freely but we also, like Larry said, we
want to get a good story and we’ll not only use it on our newspaper, but we’ll
also use it for the general population on The Prison Report.
RODRIGUEZ: Sounds great.
SCHNEIDER: The Prison Report is a television broadcast [within the prison].
RODRIGUEZ: Oh, cool, OK.
GARCIA: All right. Can you tell us your name? The way you spell it and the
way, everybody knows you as.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah it’s Luis, L-U-I-S, and I usually have the J as a middle initial
and then Rodriguez. R-O-D-R-I-G-U-E-Z. But, most of my friends, and I’ll
include you all as my friends, call me Louie.
GARCIA: Louie?
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RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
GARCIA: OK, Louie. We established that part! (group laughter). We appreciate
you taking your time – we know you have a busy schedule and we appreciate
you taking your time to sit down and talk to us. Remember last week when we
talked, I asked you a question about “Piolin por la Manana”?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah. I didn’t get a chance to find out how to get that
because we don’t normally contact him. Because, I asked my…what you call it? I
have a publicist.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: She says that she was in touch with him and then we never heard
from them so she kind of threw him off the list.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: But I will, I can find out…because he’s easy, he’s successful, his
show’s very popular.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: He’s all over the place so it shouldn’t be hard to find him out.
GARCIA: OK, yeah, it’s difficult for us because it’s hard for us to get on a phone.
We have 15 minutes for those collect calls.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah. So let me see what I can find out. I can try to e-mail
you whatever information I got. Yeah, but she threw him off the list because he
never responded to things and I guess that’s what she does. Who knows?
GARCIA: Oh, OK.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
GARCIA: Hey, let’s start talking about your books. You published, you said 15
books…
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RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, and just so you know, most of them are collectors’ art
books. They’re hand-made books. They’re poetry.
GARCIA: Uh-huh.
RODRIGUEZ: So you can’t get them in any bookstore. They go from $300 to
$800; that includes the 15 but among the other books I also have a novel and
short stories published that’s for everybody. You can get them anywhere. I have
a few poetry books and I got children’s books and of course I have the two
memoirs
GARCIA: And their names are?
RODRIGUEZ: Well the main one is, of course, Always Running and La Vida Loca,
Gang Days in LA. That’s the most popular book I have. They tell me it sold close
to a half a million copies. Which, I don’t know for sure, but I’m going to take
their word for it and it’s the book that everybody reads. The new one is the
sequel to that and that’s the book It Calls You Back.
GARCIA: Aha.
RODRIGUEZ: And it has a subtitle of an odyssey through love, addiction,
revolutions and healing. And then the other book I have that’s well known is
called Hearts in Hands and the subtitle is Creating Community in Violent Times and
this is more of a of non-fiction book about my 30 years of working with the most
troubled communities with gang kids in the poorest neighborhoods.
The various things I learned from working with kids, homeless, prisoners, the
marginalized communities out in our world. Then I also have a short story
collection called Republic of East LA
GARCIA: Yeah.
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RODRIGUEZ: And then I have a novel called Music of the Mill. Beyond that, I
have… I won’t get into all my poetry books but the most well known is called
My Nature’s Hunger and that’s got a little bit of all my other books and some new
poems. And then I got about three children’s books but one of them is called It
Doesn’t Have to Be This Way, A Barrio Story and it’s actually written for kids from
age 8 to 10 thinking of joining gangs. It’s a book to dissuade, especially because
that’s the age a lot of people get into gangs, the ages of 10, 11, 12, 13. So, this book
was written to dissuade young kids from joining gangs. It’s illustrated and it’s
bilingual, and that book is used a lot actually. I got other books, but those are the
main ones.
GARCIA: Right. Now, you know, what I am curious about is that, when you
write a book, what is your process from beginning to end? Like, what mindset
are you in when you are developing your characters? Are these real characters or
are they characters that you just pick out of nowhere from the communities?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, when it comes to the short stories and [the] novel, they’re
made-up people, they’re made-up characters, but they’re based on people that I
know. I’ve worked in the steel mill, so when I did Music of the Mill, that was a
novel about a steel mill, but I based it a lot on the characters in the mill and
people, but I did make up the names. I did make up people because I didn’t want
to disparage anybody in the book. I got into a lot of issues. The short-story
collection – the same. It’s about the barrio, it’s around East LA, it’s about people I
knew. It’s not really a gang book so much as about just the “gente,” the working
people, the people who own the shops, to the “wino” on the corner, you know
what I mean.
GARCIA: Yeah.
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RODRIGUEZ: It’s about just the “gente” so I based it on real people, but I
changed everything. Now the memoirs are different. The memoirs are all –
they’re not made up. None of it was made up. None of the stories are made up.
It’s all true stuff. It’s all real people. What I did do though, because I want to
protect people, and that includes the innocent and the guilty, I changed some
people’s names. I did turn around like a few incidents so people couldn’t figure
out who did what and where…you know what I am saying. There wasn’t too
much of that but I did for my books to protect people. I didn’t want to write any
books that would disparage or hurt anybody, but I did want to bring out the
truth about what it was living in whatever I was going through.
GARCIA: Now, I notice that you talked to people in a lot of different countries
like Tokyo, Mexico City, Guatemala, Guadalajara, El Salvador, Managua, Lima.
When you go to all these other countries, are you discussing your books or your
memoirs or are you just visiting?
RODRIGUEZ: No, they invite me. And I’m really glad because I don’t really do
like tourist stuff. I don’t get no money to just go on vacation. So what happens is
people hear about what I do and they invite me. The last trip I did was to
Argentina. Where they invited me to speak at four youth prisons and I went to
the poorest slums in Buenos Aires and then I even went to the more indigenous
communities in northern Argentina. So people know the work that I do and then
they invite me. When I was in Guatemala I went to two prisons. I went to the
poorest slums, you know what I mean. And even the last time I was in Mexico, I
ended up in Chihuahua, and I went to a prison and juvenile hall there. I went to
Ciudad Juarez, which is the most violent city in the world right now, and was
able to talk and…people want to hear what I have to say but I’m also listening to
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them. You know I learn from all the people I visit with and talk to so I’m very
fortunate that I can do that. Even if I go in these, quote-unquote, dangerous
neighborhoods, I go there with a lot of love, peace, respect, and listening, you
know what I mean.
I was in Sarajevo. I did all this poetry in Sarajevo, and I didn’t realize how violent
that area had been – well I realized it but when I was there I saw the end-results,
you know. So I love going to these places only because I hope I can bring some
message of peace, of real change, of personal and social transformation that
works.
GARCIA: What kind of responses do you get when you are there?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, I’m going to tell you man, I’m always surprised but people
really pay attention. I don’t even know if they know who I am. Like when I was
in…I go to Europe a lot, and when I was in Germany – I go to Germany a lot.
One time I was in a southern German town in the middle of nowhere, and they
wanted me to read in the theater…but no one knows me. I don’t even have my
books translated in German that I know of. So, I didn’t know what was going to
happen, the whole place got packed. People come; they’re willing to listen to
what I have to say, even in Tokyo. I don’t speak Japanese and every time I was
doing readings, people would just pack the place. So, to me, I found audiences
very open and receptive. Even some of the worst places, people will be open.
When I was in Guatemala, they put me in with these “Maras,” tattooed faced
kids. They lock the doors behind me. Put me in the cellblock with one of the
“Maras.” They close the cell and left me there for three to four hours. I didn’t
worry, I mean you always think something might happen, but I just had to start
talking with these young men and we started interacting. First, they were leery,
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you know, they weren’t open. Then the more we talked – I can speak Spanish
pretty good so I got along real well. Man I had a great time. So I would tell you
honestly I’ve had nothing but good experiences. It doesn’t mean there isn’t
danger, it doesn’t mean that every once in a while you meet people who don’t
want to hear what I have to say but I think most people are just open and also
they have a lot of great imagination themselves. I learned a lot from some of
these kids that I talked to who you would think didn’t have any ideas.
When I was in Ciudad Juarez, one of my best visits was in Juvenile Hall there.
These are kids who have seen some terrible, terrible death and murders and
families killed. They had some beautiful things to say. It’s kind of sad on one
hand I see that…they don’t see much of a future for themselves, but they have a
lot going for them. Anyway, I’ve had nothing but good responses so far
wherever I go.
GARCIA: I’m listening when you say when you were locked in this room with
these guys in the “Mara” – you’re talking about the “Mara Salvatrucha” right?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah. And there was actually Mara 18, but they separate
them, so I had to be in one cellblock with just one Mara and in another cellblock
was another Mara. They couldn’t be in the same room. And most of those guys,
by the way, are LA, or were LA guys. They got deported, but they put me in
these cellblocks with guys that never been to LA, but they imitated the whole LA
style.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: But they’d never been to LA and they look just like homies, you
know, they talk like “vatos” from the neighborhood, but they’ve totally never
been there. So it’s really strange how it’s transformed a lot of those countries.
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GARCIA: Yeah, now when you’re there…so what you’re saying is that these are
human beings.
RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely.
GARCIA: They got caught up in that world and they don’t … they’re not given
that attention there’s no way for them to look for another direction. But, I guess
like you said, after a little bit of time talking to them, they felt comfortable.
Would you say they would feel that way if they were given other opportunities
instead of just…because I know they are just thrown in there, like in a cage, like a
big ol’ warehouse…
RODRIGUEZ: And you know what? I think you’re making a good point. I really
think that people don’t see them all the way through. And I understand it, you
know, why they look scary. Because they really don’t trust anybody. And the
more people pull away from them, they feel, the less danger they are – you know
what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: They got tattoos all over their faces; they look at you like they’re
going to kill you. But you know? I just hang in there and I just talk and I tell my
truth and I listen to them. And they just begin to open up. Because, underneath
all that, you know there is a human being and there is a real capable person
there. And I guess if they could imagine that there is another world out there,
they would want to do some good things in this world. Or even get caught up in
a world that they can’t imagine that there’s anything good. But I know that
inside they do it. So I know things get rough. But you know what? I guess the
roughest place I’ve been to is Ciudad Juarez. I’m telling you man, talk
about…you know, I was born there, you know what I mean? This is going back
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home. This is going back to my own roots, but I have been so removed from
there. And to go there and to see the worst kind of violence you can imagine. But
see these kids and hear them. And they got poetry inside them; you know what
I’m sayin’?
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: And they got beautiful ideas. And nobody wants to hear it. You
know? That’s what’s really hard. That very few people are willing to hear what
they have to say.
GARCIA: I know that you have two publishing companies…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. I started one 20, almost 25 years ago, called [inaudible]
Press. And that has been going fairly well even though this is a hard time for
books. We have like 60 books, we have CD’s, we have [inaudible] books, it’s
mostly all poetry, even though now I’m beginning to change into other things.
That is a non-profit. That’s part of my cultural setting that I have here in the San
Fernando Valley. Called [inaudible] Cultural. Now, I also have a separate little
publishing thing called Barking Rooster Books. And we just published a book from
a guy who had done 30 years in the California prison system. And I’m interested
in these stories because they’re about redemption. They’re about people who’ve
been through hard times. You know, walk the walk, been through hell, but then
they find enlightenment in the darkness. They find themselves. And now this
guy in particular, he’s become a professor, he’s helping change people’s lives.
He’s clean and he’s somebody that, I think, has a powerful story. Just like
anybody that I meet, and the good thing about it, he knows how to write, so
that’s always important.
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GARCIA: So now when somebody writes a book and they want to contact you,
what do they have to do?
RODRIGUEZ: Well here’s the thing. I invite everybody, anybody, to write stuff
to me if they’re interested. I’m always open for new voices, urgent voices. I don’t
care if they’re behind bars or they’re on the other end of it. I’m looking for great
stories, but also, good writers. Because that’s the hard part. And it’s not even the
fault of anybody. Most of us don’t get properly educated. But, every once in a
while, you meet people who can put words together and it’s amazing. So, I’m
always looking for that. And what I would suggest is that if anybody has
something…and I’m looking for books, I’m not... I don’t got a magazine – I used
to have a magazine, but I don’t have one now where I just publish a poem or a
story. I’m looking for book ideas. Poetry books, stories. People can send all those
ideas to my P.O. Box. And I’ll give it to you right now.
GARCIA: OK.
RODRIGUEZ: P.O. Box 328, San Fernando, CA 91341. And they can just put it in
my name. They can always put in care of Punky Brewster, because this
is…Punky Brewster is more into – kind of open up to those new voices. Where
me and [inaudible] are more like, you know, more skillful writers. Writers who
have been more developed. The one thing I would have to say so that people
don’t feel bad, I get like 200 manuscripts a year. So, obviously, I have so many
people, and I can only publish, you know, a small number of books.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: So, but either way, I think it’s always worth trying. I will try to
find the strongest voices and manuscripts that I can.
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GARCIA: I want to talk a little bit about your childhood because you talked
about…when you were 11, 12 years old, how you were getting involved in gangs
and then at the age of 17 you were using heroin.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
GARCIA: What was that life at home like that caused you to venture out in the
street? Was it the barrio life, or was it home problems? Or were you just looking
for a different kind of freedom?
RODRIGUEZ: You know, when I came from Mexico, I was two years old. When I
started going to school, I started in Watts, and then we ended up in the Eastside.
I was very broken down, I couldn’t speak the language, I was being made fun of,
I was bullied, I started…my brother was my first big bully. The guy just used to
abuse the hell out of me. He was older, but he would beat me up, throw me off
rooftops, the whole thing. He even got his friends to come together and beat me
up. There was a lot of abuse at home. My mother would beat me up, in other
words, I’d have to say those are the things that I remember, when I started
getting in trouble. And I was only seven years old; I started to steal. Who knows
why? That I thought I needed to steal. But also, I started to; you know what I’m
sayin’. Stick them with pens. Throw them off balconies, you know, porches. I
was already a troubled kid and what happened is, by 11 years old, I saw a gang
creep through the elementary school. We had already moved to the San Gabriel
Valley, the Eastside part of San Gabriel Valley, and I never knew about these
guys, they were all “cholos,” they were all dressed down. They had sticks, bats,
and chains. They broke through the elementary school to go after some guys.
They scared everybody. But man, I got so attracted to that. I guess I was so
broken down that I just thought, “Man, I want that. Whatever they got.” Scaring
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people, hurting people. I was just a dumb little kid and I thought that’s what I
wanted and so I joined a gang, 11 years old. Just to be part of something that I
thought nobody else had. And you know I was also a very ugly kid. It’s part of
my story. I got beat up when I was nine years old, and my jaw got fractured, so
we never got it fixed and what happened is it grew crooked. So people used to
make fun of me and girls called me “monkey” and it was really bad. But the
gang embraced it; you know what I’m sayin’?
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: They called me “Chin” and that became my “placaso,” became my
gang name. And pretty soon I didn’t want to be fixed. My mother and dad
would say, “Well, we’ll try to fix it.” They had no money, but I go, “No, no. I
want to be ‘Chin,’ you know?” So after a while, I embraced it too. Because the
gang was the only one that embraced it, my damaged feature. So you could
imagine a young kid: nothing. No friends. Being embraced by the gangs. How
powerful that can be.
GARCIA: Right. How many kids did you say you have?
RODRIGUEZ: I have four kids. And their ages, just so you know, because they
run the gamut, from 36 to 34 to 23 to 17.
GARCIA: And when you came to San Quentin, you specifically talked about one
of your sons…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
GARCIA: Whom you sent to Chicago, and you know, because you wanted to get
him away from the environment and that he wound up getting involved in
activities over there and shooting a cop.
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RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, he got involved with the gangs in Chicago and you know I
didn’t raise my son like that…I think I might have mentioned that day that when
my son was born, my oldest son, I was 20 years old. I had just left heroin. I had
left getting out of the county jail. You know I just left all that craziness, I’m never
going to go back. And I held him in my arms. And I said, thinking about, I want
to be the best dad, you know how that goes.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: But two and half years later, I abandoned him. You know how
crazy that is.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: And I had to still deal with issues. I had rage issues. I had
addiction issues that lasted for a total of 27 years and then I had…I had Post
Traumatic Stress Disorder. I didn’t know anything about. So I could be triggered
really easy. I had a hard time with relationships and with my own kid; I couldn’t
really meet that promise. So, years later, I’m living in Chicago, he’s getting in
trouble, his mom sends him over to me. And he’s 13 years old, and you can
imagine. I’m trying to be a dad. And I never was a dad. It was very hard. Two
years later, he was in a gang. And he got involved with the same thing: shootings
and, you know, he became one of those shooters for one of the Chicago street
gangs, and got very active. He ended up doing a total of 15 years in prison, all for
violent acts from the age of 17 to 35, including shooting at two police officers.
And, he’s out now, but the issue is, it tears you up as a dad. When you realize
that, I’m partially responsible. I should have been there for him. You know what
I mean? I should have kept that promise that I made to him. It was very difficult,
but that’s what you learn, you learn that’s the important things. To be there for
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your kids. If I’ve done wrong, that’s life, but then to find the character. You know
what I mean.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Get that character, that courage, that strength, to be there for your
family, for your community, for your kid. I learned the hard way but I did finally
learn to be a father to all my kids. But with my oldest son, it was the hardest
thing. I had to see him go through that. Hard time. I will have to say, in the long
run, it worked out, because he’s doing fine. He was actually facing 40 years to
life; we spent about a year fighting that. They gave him 28 years. He still should
have been doing a long time. But then his case fell in, when the state of Illinois
was declaring Truth in Sentencing law unconstitutional. So he was supposed to
do 100 percent of his time. That now went back to good time, day for day, and
then he still got six months back time, so he gets out after 13 and a half years, so
you could imagine.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Forty years to life, to finally get out in 13 and a half years, it’s
blessings that we all have to recognize. And, especially for him and me. Now
we’re close. He gave up the gang life. He realized how dangerous he had put
himself and his family in and now he’s trying to be a father. He’s got three kids
and he’s trying to be a father to those kids, you know what I mean, even though
one of them doesn’t want anything to do with him for the same reason. He
wasn’t raising them. So, we all have to learn, you know, how to be a that father
and have that courage and get that character that we need.
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GARCIA: And given all the experience you have, Luis, if you was to meet with
the governor, Jerry Brown, what would you tell him about the California
sentencing laws they have in California?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, you know this is what I would say ‘cause, one of the things I
did is start going to prisons. I had to do these workshops and talks. I’ve been
doing them for 30 years. I started in the California prison system and then
throughout the whole country. I have found that again, like we were saying
about these kids, there is a human capable – an able human being – in all these
people in the prisons. We don’t always see it and I understand sometimes it’s
hard to see, sometimes the way society has put them in a cage, makes a person
buy into it. You know what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Pretty soon, they’re putting themselves in a cage. But my feeling is
that every one of them is capable of redemption and change and, not only that,
they’re capable of coming back and helping our communities. I think these long
sentences are a waste of humanity, as you know; it’s a waste of tax dollars. I
think what people need is to be given help. mean I’m talking about – I’m not just
playing the word “rehabilitation,” but I mean real meaning. Real rehabilitation.
Real treatment. A real sense of some education and some knowledge that they
can get back to the community with. Because my feeling is that if anybody does
wrong – and everybody does wrong – they should learn from what they’ve done
so they can come back and then actually enhance the communities. So, when
guys come out of the prisons that I know – even if they’ve done long times and
they’re willing to do some good – I will help them get involved in the
community. For example, one of the things my son is doing after – now he’s out
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of prison – he started working with about a hundred gang kids. Through a
program that I knew in Chicago that I worked with he started helping them. And
these are hard-core gang kids. And some of them included enemies, you know,
in neighborhoods, and now he’s working with them and he’s gained their
respect. Because many of those kids were looking to do what he wanted, what he
did. They were looking to join his footsteps. You know what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: And he’s telling them: No! You don’t have to. You don’t need to
walk this way. I did it and I’m telling you. You don’t need to do this. And he’s
being honest with them, and he’s working with them, and I just spoke to those
kids. I went to Chicago in September, I spoke to those kids. Again, one of the best
talks I had. And I could see the respect they gave my son. Because my son, he
was in his time, to hurt people. You know what I mean. Or to act tough. You
know what I mean. Or to say: Hey! I did this time. I’m better than you. He’s
using it to say: Listen. I did this. This is what I had to learn and I don’t want you
to go through this, you know. And he’s trying to teach them and hopes to guide
them so they won’t end up in the same place he was in.
GARCIA: Now, I’m going to ask you one more question and my co-workers
here, they’ve got a few questions they want to ask you, but I know this is a
difficult one: Your relationship with your father. I know you said that you had a
difficult relationship with your dad. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. You know. My dad was one of those guys – and I think
most people can relate – that had no emotions. He didn’t know how to express
emotion. You know what I’m sayin’.
GARCIA: Yeah.
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RODRIGUEZ: And growing up when you’re a kid. You know. You need your
dad. You love your dad. And he just could never express emotion. Now the
difference with him, unlike some of my homies that didn’t have dads, my dad
came home. He worked. You know. He had different jobs. He ended up being a
janitor. You know, he worked all day long. He came home and he didn’t have
time for the kids. You know how that goes.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: My mom was the one that beat us up. You know. Trying to set us
straight and everything. My dad didn’t really bother. The terrible thing about all
that is that I didn’t really have dad. I hated him. I didn’t want anything to do
with him. But the worst thing that happened is that, it turned out that, my dad
ended up – and I’m willing to admit this because it’s in my book – ended up
molesting my sisters. He never molested the boys. I didn’t even know about this.
And one of my younger sisters told me something that really hurt me. Years
later, you know, she says, “You know when you were in the streets, when you
were using the drugs and in the gangs. I had nobody to protect me.” And I really
felt bad. Because she says, “You’re the only one that stood up to my mom and
dad.” And they threw me out of the house and I was in the streets. I didn’t think
about it. I didn’t think about my younger sisters being hurt by them. By my
mom, who used to abuse them, but also my dad, who was molesting them. And,
it really hurt me to know. And I had this terrible hatred towards my dad – not
only for those years that he wasn’t there, as a dad – but also that he would do
things like that. Years later, they found him trying to molest my daughters. I
went a little crazy. And I thought: “Well, I’m going to kill him.” I’m just being
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honest. That was my thought. I’m gonna… I’d left that life, but I still had that
rage. You know what I’m sayin’.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: I was fortunate that I was living with a person who was trained,
including as a therapist…
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: To help me a lot. She helped me realize, I’m not going to save the
family. I’m not going to save the world – that was always my thing – I’m going
to save the barrio. I’m going to be the first guy in the streets…you know, I always
kept, I had this big heroic thing, you know. I’m going to straighten my family…
She says, “That’s not your job, dude. Heal yourself, heal yourself.” And, she
convinced me that the poison of hate was actually going through my veins and
poisoning me. You know what I’m saying. I eventually, just to make a long story
short, my dad eventually got stomach cancer. And I knew he was dying. I didn’t
want to go see him. But my mom called me. And I was in Chicago and they were
in L.A. and she says, “You have to talk to him. He’s not going to make it. He’ll be
dead by the next morning.” That was the thing. So, she gave him the phone. And
he can’t talk because…he’s got stomach cancer, he can’t speak no more, but I can
hear his breathing. And I didn’t know what to tell the guy, you know? And I
said something that just came out of my heart. I don’t know why I told him, “I
love you, dad.” It was – it was the most weirdest thing. Because I guess behind
everything, I did love the guy…and I hated him. You know what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: And that’s the sad part. Because sometimes the people that hurt
us aren’t those monsters with scars on their face – they’re your own family
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members. They’re the people you trust. People that should be loving you that
you love. And they end up betraying you, hurting you, not being there for you
or, in this case, even like with my sisters, molesting them. So, it was a rough,
complicated thing. But I recognize, you know, I hate my dad and then I love him.
He died soon after that. Apparently, my mother said he had a reaction. So he,
even though he couldn’t speak, somehow, he had a reaction to it. And I told him
something he never told me. And now it helped me for my own healing. You
know what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Yeah, it gave you growth.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. My own growth. That I wouldn’t carry that hate. Even after
he’s gone. That I wouldn’t use that poison. So that would just poison my own
family. That would just poison my own kids. I’ve learned from all that. The
terrible things that he’d done. I might – I feel bad because my younger sister is
the only one that wants to speak about it. Everybody else is shut down. You
know how the families can be.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Nobody wants to talk about it. I brought it up in my book and I
know part of my family is upset. But I told them all; I met with them. I said I
have to tell the story. But I’m not going to do it without some dignity. You know
what I’m saying.
GARCIA: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: I’m not here just to disparage him. I’m not here just to put him
down. That’s not my goal. I’m just here to talk about something that I know
affects so many people. And I’m here for the healing…for the help, not to hurt.
So, hopefully they can understand that. But my youngest sister is the one that
20
has been backing me up and she told me: “Louie, whatever you do, tell the
story.” And I feel bad for her because she’s got some mental illness. You know
what I mean.
GARCIA: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: I love her dearly. Recently, she was homeless in Idaho. I tell
her…I’ll see if I can help her out. She’s doing OK now, but the point is she’s
always in some kind of trouble when… I feel bad for her. And, I know that she
suffered a lot, for what happened.
GARCIA: Yeah, you know just listening to you tell that story, you know…it just
shows that, you know, you’ve reached that level of maturity, of growth, you
know, and… You understand it and you see it. And you know, they’re not there
yet. But hopefully through your writings and through your speaking and stuff
like that, they’ll be able to overcome.
RODRIGUEZ: Thank you. I appreciate that. That means a lot, yeah.
GARCIA: Okay, now I’m going to pass it over to Cogan, here, to ask you a few
questions. And I’ll talk to you at the end.
RODRIGUEZ: All right.
WILLIAMS: Hey, how you doing?
RODRIGUEZ: I’m doing good.
WILLIAMS: You know, you have a really powerful story there. I know I’m
inspired myself. I grew up in L.A., went to school to watch myself. I went to San
Miguel.
RODRIGUEZ: Oh, yeah. I know San Miguel. he church and the school there.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Wow!
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WILLIAMS: I was like…there was like six blacks in the whole school and four of
them was my family, so…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah!
WILLIAMS: I grew up really…
RODRIGUEZ: On Thelmia! I’m sure you know where Thelmia is.
WILLIAMS: Huh?
RODRIGUEZ: I used to live on Thelmia.
WILLIAMS: Thelmia?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And then I used to live on 109th and Mona.
WILLIAMS: Right. Exactly. eah.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, that’s right there.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: And…so, you know, I have a couple questions, about, like, so
having growing up in the gang culture myself… How prevalent do…are these
gangs like in other countries especially? Like you mentioned about, you know,
being in other countries and seeing how they emulating the L.A. style or, you
know, the gang culture style that, you know, came out of Los Angeles. How
prevalent is that?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, I hate to say this, but I’m sure you’re aware. It’s very
prevalent. For some reason, L.A., but also Chicago, but more L.A. Because of
Hollywood. The culture started spreading out. You know when the movie
“Colors” came out?
WILLIAMS: Uh-huh.
22
RODRIGUEZ: And then all of a sudden, like I was in Italy for example, and these
kids came up to me and said they were Crips and Bloods – in Italy! Because they
saw Colors, you know. But the other thing that happened is the deportations.
That really hit, particularly, Mexico and Central America. They were deporting
these L.A.-based gang kids. And I think that was a big problem because now
we’re exporting the gang culture. You can imagine what I’m talking about, you
know. We’re exporting all the lives that were crazies. The kind of killings and the
turf wars and all the stuff around the drugs and everything, and the arms. And
now, the way the people dress and talk, and of course, the culture exports it and
then we are exporting people. And it’s not even just to Mexico and Central
America, you know. I was…I’ve been reading about Cambodia. A lot of kids
came to L.A., became gang kids, they started deporting them. And now they’re
lost and confused and causing problems in Cambodia. Armenia. People had
come from Armenia. Joined L.A. gangs and then…now they’re being exported
over there. They got “cholos” in Armenia, they got “cholos” in El Salvador, you
know what I’m saying. And not only that, they got Crips and Bloods in places
like Belize!
WILLIAMS: South Africa.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I mean…Yeah, that’s true. In other words, we have – instead
of resolving a problem, unfortunately – we have spread it around in the world.
WILLIAMS: So…so what we can do, as people coming up out of their culture,
because, you know, like I said, I’m inspired by your story, I’m inspired by your
writings… What can we do, like as a collective, coming up out of they culture, to
try to reach…to try to reach these people in these other countries?
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RODRIGUEZ: You know I think one thing is to tell your story because I find that
kids are dying because there are not enough of your stories out there. And that’s
why I try to see if I can do these books. Any way to get that story out. And it’s a
story of redemption and change. You’ve been through something that many of
them think they have to go through. But you’ve also gone through the other side.
For example, if you watch shows…I don’t know if you guys get a chance to
watch like, Gangland – a lot of those shows, to me, they’re not good shows. Most
of them, as far as I can tell, perpetuate, you know what I’m saying.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
RODRIGUEZ: The bad. And they got guys talking nonsense. But to me what’s
needed is the story of people been through that. Every once in a while you hear
it, you know. But they also have gone through something…they learn from it.
The wisdom that you can’t take away from anybody. I’m sure that, you know
what I’m talking about…you all have this wisdom. You’ve seen things from both
ends. A lot of these kids need to hear those stories, you know. That’s what I told
my son cause he…when he got out of prison two summers ago, he was kind of, a
little lost. And, I told him, “Listen, one good thing you can do mi’jo, if you’re
interested, if it’s in your heart” – because you can’t be phony about this, you
know – I told him, “help somebody. You’ve been through something. Don’t go
back to that world, but maybe you can help others from getting into that world.”
And that’s what he’s trying to do. So I think that’s part of how your stories,
where you’ve been through – the hard-earned wisdom that you’ve gained – how
you can give it back to some young people. Whether it’s in our neighborhoods,
or even in places like we’re talking about, where…in other countries. The fact
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that I go out there, they are so amazed about the L.A. gang life. But I have to give
them the other side of it, too. You know what I’m saying.
WILLIAMS: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: They glorify it. And I have to talk about the reality of it. Me? I
don’t demonize that life, but I don’t glorify it. Neither one is reality to me. But
there is a reality of human beings, caught up in some terrible circumstances. And
some who do good and some that don’t. And even the ones that don’t how they
can possibly do good if given the chance.
WILLIAMS: And what about…say like for instance, and this may be somewhat a
sensitive topic, but, I was here for a while, you know I’ve been…I’ve been
incarcerated about 15 years. And, you know, I’ve been hearing for a while, how a
lot of the violence picked up between the black and the brown, down in the L.A.
area, right?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: But, what can we do, in addition, you know, to trying to stop people
from gangs, but trying to stop this system, this… You know, in my view, we all
in the same plight.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, exactly. Well, you’re right. And I think that’s what people
need to hear, because you know, what happens is…to me that’s kind of… Living
in Watts, you understand, there’s Blacks, Mexicans, together, you know.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: We grew up together, we knew each other.
WILLIAMS: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: Now, they’re all hating. You know, you think about: Well, what
happened here? You know.
25
WILLIAMSCHNEIDER: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: When I was there, we had…yeah, we got into some hassles here
and there, but most of them got resolved, you know?
WILLIAMS: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: Our families interacted. And then all of sudden, now it’s been
hating. So to me it’s like, OK…to me it’s like: this is not natural to us.
WILLIAMS: Right.
RODRIGUEZ: What’s natural is that we’re in the same communities. We know
each other. We need to work together to better our communities and I’m one of
the few people that really tries to voice that. I find that it’s really important that
we come together, black and brown. I think that with…there is strength there. I
think that if we’re going to better anybody’s position in these communities, it’s
better that you unite with your own neighbors. So, it’s a very important point, I
think, to just bring that out. You know, we’re in the same boat, like you’re
saying. We’re in the same boat. We’re all sinking in the Titanic. Let’s find a way
to save what we have together. Because in order to really better yourself, to have
a healthy development in life, you’ve got to make sure that everybody has a
healthy development in life. You understand what I’m saying?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
RODRIGUEZ: You know, to make sure you have one, everybody should have
one. And that’s what we should fight for. Instead of: “I’m just going to fight for
mine. I don’t care what happens to the next guy.” Well it turns out; you’re
cutting your own throat.
WILLIAMS: Right.
26
RODRIGUEZ: If the next person can’t make it, you’re not going to make it either.
You know.
WILLIAMS: Right. And you also said something else that really…resonated and
stood out in my mind about how the gang…it embraced so much of our flaws
that we begin to accept these flaws as who we were.
RODRIGUEZ: Right. Yeah you know it’s a very hard…that’s a very good point.
Because I was talking to somebody the other day that the problem is that, you
identify with the gang life so much. And it’s hard to separate a kid from that
because it’s all mixed in with them. And so the really important step here is to
realize that a kid has a different life other than that. And little by little, you begin
to let them know, they have imagination – they have creative possibilities. They
have these beautiful qualities and not get them caught up in this thing where:
“I’m the gang. The gang is me. Whatever’s part of the gang, I’m in it.”
You know what I’m saying. They start getting caught up in that web, as we call
it. The web that you all know about. You know, “La Vida Loca,” This Crazy Life.
We get caught in that web. But we don’t get caught like a fly; we get caught like a
spider. We end up…we within ourselves, deeper and deeper into it. And so it’s
very important that people recognize that you have to stop identifying with that
web. You know what I mean.
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: Because pretty soon, it’s hard to separate yourself if you are the
spider…making yourself into this web. It isn’t even about the environment
anymore, it’s about you putting yourself deeper in it, and that’s what makes it
harder to break away.
27
WILLIAMS: And when you and…when you were talking earlier about, living or
being with a therapist, and the therapist helping you…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
WILLIAMS: Through your situation…through some of the thoughts that you
was, that you were going through…could you talk a little bit more about that?
About that reflection, and that insight you had to look into?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, I think it’s important for everybody…like I told young
people. There’s five things they should do when they’re trying to get out of this
craziness, whatever it might be. Because…let’s list the five things: One of them is
they need to, first of all, recognize they need help. Because you know, we try to
do it ourselves. You know, our pride gets in our way. We think: “I can…I don’t
need nobody, I can handle this”, and we keep falling down. I have to break
down and say, “You know, I’m going to need help.” When I needed the help, all
of a sudden, people would step up and match my aims and my interests. There
was mentors. There was people that I knew, all of a sudden, pop out of the
woodwork and say, “I can help you.” You know what I’m saying? When you’re
seeking it, you will find that a lot of people – when I’m seeking it…we want to
do it ourselves. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s generally better to find a
community – even if it’s temporary – that can help you get through this. So, I was
able to find in various points in my life, different mentors and teachers and
people who just help me get through, when I was going through heroin…you
know it was very hard to leave heroin. Extremely hard. But I found people even
among the addicts that were helping me. You know what I’m saying? In other
words, when they saw that I really wanted to leave this – it’s the hardest thing to
leave – and they were there helping me. Because in those days it’s – you
28
probably might remember if you’re old enough – in the late 60s, early 70s, there
was no recovery programs. There was no way to get out of heroin. The only way
you could get out is “cold turkey”, you know what I mean. There was nothing
you could find in the poorest neighborhoods. There was no Methadone. There
was none of that stuff. You had to do it cold turkey or not at all. Which meant
that most people wouldn’t do it. So, you have to find help to get through that.
Eighteen years ago that I’m clean and sober now. Eighteen years. I had to find
help. And I think that’s one thing. The other thing I tell young people is find
your art. Because everybody is creative. Everybody has got that part of them.
Yeah, their passions. And art could be anything. Teaching is an art. People say,
“Well, I want to be a teacher. That’s not an art.” I go, “No, there’s an art in
teaching.” Even a mechanic is an artist, right?
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: I tell people, “If you’re into mechanics, there’s an art in that.”
Find an art that you love. The third thing I tell people is, I tell them to find a
cause they can learn themselves. It could be for helping the community, it could
be for peace, it could even be just being a better father. You know what I’m
saying. That’s a big cause. I tell them, “If that’s your goal, then that’s what you
need to do.” Have a cause bigger than yourself, because addictions is so selfish,
you know what I mean, so self-centered. You’ve got to open it up that you’ve got
to help others. And then the fourth thing I tell them is find a spiritual life. I tell
them, “Whatever you can do to get spiritually engaged.” It’s very important that
they get that part. There’s so many ways to go. It’s all valid in my view. You
know. But people need to find something that really goes deep inside them. And
then the fifth thing that I tell them – this is the hardest one – is to own your life.
29
And I tell them that because we…they’re all caught up in webs. You know when
you’re in the gang; you turn your whole life over to the gang. When you’re into
drugs, what do you do? You turn your whole life over to them. Heroin…or in
this case, sometimes crystal meth, or whatever it is that people are into. You have
to own your life. You have to say, “I own it. I don’t turn my life over to nobody
or nothing.” You know what I mean. So, those are the five steps I tell them to
help them get out of that web – of the crazy life that many people get caught up
in and usually, if they follow those five steps, they tend to be doing much better.
WILLIAMS: And my last question, before we bring up the next gentleman, is, I
notice I saw you on the picture here, with Bruce Springsteen and your wife…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah.
WILLIAMS: You know in this day and time where so many youngsters refer to
they women by the B-word, could you talk of just a little bit about how
important it is to choose a mate and to treat your mate?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, it’s very important, you know. I was…if you read It Calls You
Back, you’ll know that I was not very good in that department. I’ve been married
three times officially and lived with two other women and I was just not good
with relationships. And again, I’m not bad-bragging – this is not about bragging
– I was an ugly person. I’m still ugly, you know. It had nothing to do with that. It
has to do though, that I had a hard time with love, and I had a hard time with
relationships. And it’s like I eventually had to learn to love my father, even
though he did these terrible things, I had to learn to love myself and love my
companion. I finally found somebody, and she never was into gangs, or drugs, or
any of that stuff. A lot of the people I end up with had some issues similar to me,
which was not healthy, but this woman has never been through it. And she had
30
to go to hell and back with me, but also with my son, and I will tell you one
thing: she never gave up on us. You know what I’m saying?
WILLIAMS: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: She stood by everything. Even when my son told us crazy and
really hurt her and everything, she stood by him; she stood by me. When I went
through my recovery – which was actually worse – I’m sure you know that when
you’re recovering, you’re actually a worse person. I was raging even more. I
didn’t understand what was happening. She went through all that. And she
stood by me, so I finally have found this companion who understands what love
is and the deepness of it and the stability. And I find stability in her, and in my
two boys with her. And we’ve been married now, going on 24 years, so it’s like,
it’s amazing that I finally can get there. So I do recommend to anybody, if you
have love, love it as much as you can. If you have kids, love them as much as you
can. Life’s too short not to have true love in your life.
WILLIAMS: Thank you.
GARCIA: OK, and now we have Luke, the Chairman of the Journalism Guild.
PADGETT: Hello sir, how are you?
RODRIGUEZ: How are you doing?
PADGETT: I’m good. Thank you for allowing us to be here today. I wanted to
ask you about your…your receiving an award from the Dalai Lama.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, yeah.
PADGETT: How was that experience?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, to me that was probably the most – you know I get few
awards here and there. I don’t do what I do for awards, but obviously, when it
happens, it’s a good recognition. But that was one of the most significant ones
31
because…it was a recognition of, what they were calling, “Unsung Heroes of
Compassion.” And they were recognizing people that weren’t getting well
known around the world, weren’t getting, you know, but they were doing all
this work and I was really honored. And he was the [inaudible] that was
presenting it to us. And I would have to say that the Dalai Lama was an
extremely amazing, beautiful, wonderful person. He spoke to all of us before we
got our awards. We could ask him questions. He gave us like a little session, just
him and his time. I don’t know too much about his own spiritual path. I don’t
know too much about all that, but I do know that he was a wise man, you know
what I mean. And he gave us some really strong teachings that anybody could
get, whether you’re Buddhist or not. I found him to be somebody that was
universal in his ability to reach all our hearts. So I was very honored to get that.
PADGETT: Thank you for that. My next question is that…you were talking about
some of the women in your life. What advice would you give to young teenage
girls who are toying with the idea of getting into relationships that aren’t healthy
or even joining a gang?
RODRIGUEZ: You know I think one of the things that, when I talk to young girls
– especially when they’re incarcerated – they all know the stories. Like when I
tell people that they turn their life over to other things…what girls tend to turn
their lives over to a guy. And unfortunately, some guys, as you know, can be
extremely abusive. And they don’t know what to do to break away because they
start identifying the love with the guy that they can’t break away from the abuse.
They can’t separate it. And so I told them, “Listen, this is where you have to own
your life. Don’t ever turn your life over to anybody.” It’s good to love. It’s good
to have friends. It’s good to have relationships. But don’t turn it over to nothing.
32
You’ve got to hang on to that part of you that belongs to you. And a lot of
relationships give women the strength and knowledge that they have and some
internal beautiful strength that is so powerful. Men need it. Sometimes we’re
abusive, we don’t recognize how, really, how deep strong, to have a strong
woman next to you. Next to your side. So, a lot of it is for woman to realize that
they need to recognize their own strength, not give in to that, and it helps your
men understand: you’ve got to honor that feminine energy. You’ve got to honor
the feminine spirit. Within yourself but also among your companions and in the
world and the earth. When you have – and again from experience – when you
have a strong woman next to you, there’s almost nothing better than that in the
world.
PADGETT: I like that. So we had a gentleman by the name of Junot Diaz come in
here. And he’s another writer and…
RODRIGUEZ: Oh, cool! Yeah, I know, I know him, yeah.
PADGETT: Yeah. He’s good. Good man. Good man. He’s graced us with his
presence twice.
RODRIGUEZ: Great! Good.
PADGETT: Are we going to [be] able to get you to come in to the Creative
Writing class…and talk with us and let us know your process?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, you know what? I would love to do that. It’s just a matter of
invitation. I was able to go that one time when I met the other brother you have
there. But I think the issue is that you need an invitation. I come up to the Bay
Area, you know, pretty frequently, so it’s a matter of having it happen when I’m
going up there. I would love to come back, you know. Again, going to the
prisons have been one of the most rewarding experiences that I’ve had over the
33
last 30 years. I won’t…I can’t imagine the better experiences that I’ve had, than to
be among men and women who other people have written off. But, again, I have
found, the most amazing relationships there. So, yeah. Definitely. Let’s do this.
Especially when it comes to the writing, which is something that I can give, kind
of like a gift that I can give to the world. I would love to do that.
PADGETT: So this is my last question: What gets Mr. Rodriguez…what gets him
up everyday? Just when he doesn’t feel like getting up and he doesn’t feel like
facing the day? What is it that moves you to…to keep doing what you’re doing?
RODRIGUEZ: Well, one thing I learned – and this was helpful for my own
recovery – is…because obviously, you know, you’re still constantly battling those
demons that don’t really go away. You learn how to have them. You got
strategies. But one of the things – one of the biggest strategies I have – I have to
get up every morning and give thanks. You know addicts aren’t very grateful.
You know that. And I have to learn to be grateful for what I have been given. It’s
true that I have been through a lot, but I’ve also been very blessed. A lot of my
homies…I lost 25 friends by the time I was 18 years old. They were…they
weren’t less than me, many were better than me. And they didn’t make it. I’ve
seen so many terrible things, but here I am. You know? And so I have to feel
gratefulness. That regardless of what I’ve been through, even things, terrible
betrayals that happened in my life, I have to give thanks that I’m here. That my
son is still here and alive and also that he is becoming a changed person. That’s
important. If I don’t wake up with thanks in the morning, I know I’m going to
have a bad day. You know? I have to give thanks and then get through the day
because those anxieties and those rages they still call you back. That’s why the
book is called that, you know: It Calls You Back. And every day you have to make
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that choice. Not just once but every day you get up, I’m not…I’m going to choose
to be a better human being today.
PADGETT: So this is the last – this is really my last question. The last moment
that you talked to your father…
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
PADGETT: These guys are laughing at me. What…what have you taken from
that moment…?
Because you said that, there was a love and a hate relationship.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
PADGETT: So in that you have the concept to forgive the father and heal the
child.That happened to you, it seems like. What did you take from that moment
with your father that you’ve used for yourself that you’ve used for your
children?
RODRIGUEZ: I learned the power of forgiveness. It’s very hard for us to learn
that. We can hurt and get hurt so bad and we don’t seem to have that within us.
That moment – who knows why – I just, I gave him something before he goes off
in the world that perhaps I shouldn’t have given him. I shouldn’t have given him
that gift of “I love you, dad.” He probably should go in the world…lost and
empty. But I couldn’t let him do that. And it was important because it wasn’t so
much about him, it was also about me.
PADGETT: It was for you.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, and I had to be forgiving. I tell that to my son today, you
know, he has a son and doesn’t want anything to do with him. And I tell him,
“Just be patient. Things will happen. But don’t hate yourself for it.” You know. It
makes sense to me why a son wouldn’t want anything to do with his dad when
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his dad’s been in prison most of his life. You know how that goes. I have for
example, my former enemies. We’ve all got more enemies than neighborhoods,
but obviously, the war, the gang wars, are still going on and I go to enemy
neighborhoods. But I have this one friend, who I’ve hooked up now – after 30, 40
years – he actually was found out that he actually shot at me and shot one of my
homeboys when we were teenagers. You know what I’m saying. And yet, I’m
there and I’m hugging him. And I tell him, “You’re not my enemy no more.”
You know what I’m saying. We were in tears because of the hurt that we did. He
shot my homeboy. He was one of those guys that shot at me. I turned out that I
firebombed his closest friends’ home. You know we go between these terrible
things that we do to each other. You know what I’m saying. And yet we’re still
going to be able to look to each other and say, “Brother, you’re my brother, man.
You know. Let’s …all that stuff is wrong. It was…It’s past. Let’s be brothers
man.” Because that’s, to me, the importance of forgiveness. That we can look at
our enemies. And people hurt us. I don’t…I’m not saying that people shouldn’t
be left…that we should leave anybody off the hook. You know what I’m saying.
PADGETT: Yeah.
RODRIGUEZ: My dad – I mentioned him in my book – he did wrong. I talk
about it. But he doesn’t have to be totally disparaged. You know what I’m
saying. So I think that’s important. The forgiveness part.
PADGETT: Thank you for that Mr. Rodriguez. My editor-in-chief here was really
really happy that you gave us this interview. I remember when he talked to you
that day. He was, he was, really excited about it so I want to thank you for
allowing us – me to at least ask you some questions and I hope to see you!
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RODRIGUEZ: Yeah, so I hope we can come back or we’ll work on that somehow,
figure something out where I can…
WILLIAMS: Consider yourself invited. Without a doubt.
GARCIA: Well you know what we’re going to do Louie. Is… we’re going to do
the story for the San Quentin newspaper, we’re going to do the Prison Report,
and put it out there on the Internet and to the general population. I just want to
let you know that last year Judge Thelton Henderson came to the prison and one
of the things that he said to us was…that we needed to get the news out to
society to let them know what’s going on inside the prison out into the
community and invite those people, in the communities, into the prisons so that
they can see that there’s some human beings in here, you know.
RODRIGUEZ: There you go.
GARCIA: And listening to you today, talk about the things that you so openly
talked about, shed light on every one of us in here, because, you know, it’s
pretty powerful. When you start talking about your father, when you start
talking about the drugs, you know, in the sixties, how they never had treatment
programs. One of the things I always tell guys is that, yeah, we didn’t have the
treatment or the programs for our parents so our parents didn’t have the tools
we have today.
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
GARCIA: So, today we are given the tools. So, given the opportunity to utilize
those tools and sharing them with other people, we could make the world a safer
place to live. I was thinking that maybe you should do a short story on
forgiveness because you speak very eloquent about how you went through the
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process to get to the point where you’re at today, so that’s some powerful stuff,
you know. I would look forward to seeing something like that coming from you.
RODRIGUEZ: All right man. I think that would be a great challenge for me. In
fact, I’m going to write about this experience talking with you guys. The last time
I was over there in San Quentin and… Yeah, I think it’s great. I think it will be
good for people to know. I try to do this every once in a while, because people
need to know, actually, what you’re saying. There’s great capacity for love and
change within everybody and… Let me see what I can do.
[End of Recording]
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