(c) crown copyright
Catalogue Reference:CAB/23/9
Image Reference:0001
[This Document is the Property of His Britannic Majesty s Government.]
Printed
for
the War
Cabinet.
January
1919.
27
SECRET.
WAR
Minutes
CABINET,
514.
of a Meeting of the War Cabinet held at 1 0 , Downing
8 , 1 9 1 9 , at 1 1 A . M .
Wednesday,
January
Street,
S.W.,
on
Present :
The
P R I M E MINISTER (in the
Hon! t h e E A R L CURZON OF
KEDLESTON, K G - . , G . C . S . I . , G . C . I . E .
Chair).
The Right
T h e R i g h t Hon. A. CHAMBERLAIN, M . P .
T h e R i g h t Hon. k. N . BARNES, M . P .
T h e R i g h t Hon. A. BONAR L A W , M . P .
T h e f o l l o w i n g w e r e a l s o p r e s e n t :—
T h e Right, Hon;, E . S. MONTAGU, M . P . , The R i g h t H o n . S I R E . GEDDES, G . B . E . ,
G.C.B.,
M.P..
S e c r e t a r y of Stite for I n d i a (for M i n u t e s
of
the
First Lord
5 to 7 ) .
Admiralty.
R i g h t Hoh the VISCOUNT MILNER,
The
A d m i r a l S I R R . E . W E M Y S S , G.C.B.,
C.M.G., M . V . O . , F i r s t S e a L o r d a n d
G . C . B . , G.C.MG., S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for
C h i e f of t h e N a v a l S t a f f (for M i n u t e 1 ) .
W a r (for Mimxes 1 a n d 9 ) .
G e n e r a l S I R H. H W I L S O N , G . C . B . , D . S . O . . T h e R i g h t Hon. T. J . M A C N A M A R A , L L . D . ,
C h i e f of t h e I n p e r i a l General Staff (for
M . P . , Financial Secretary, Admiralty
(for M i n u t e 1 ) .
M i n u t e s 1 a n d 9).
T h e R i g h t Hon H. W . FORSTER, M . P . ,
R e a r - A d m i r a l S I R H. H. D. TOTHILL,
F i n a n c i a l Secretary, W a r Office (for
K . C . M . G . , C.B., F o u r t h S e a L o r d (for
Minute 1 ) .
Minute 1 ) .
L i e u t e n a n t - C o l o n e l S I R R, S . HORNE,
G e n e r a l S I R W . R . ROBERTSON, G . C . B . ,
K . C . V . O . , D.SO., Commander-in-chief,
Third
Civil
Lord,
K.B.E.,
K.C.,
H o m e Forces ("or M i n u t e 9).
A d m i r a l t y (for M i n u t e s 1 to 7 ) .
General S I R J . S. COWANS, G . C . M . G . , The R i g h t Hon. LORD P I R R I E , K . P . ,
K.C.B., M . Y . G , Quartermaster-General
C o n t r o l l e r - G e n e r a l of M e r c h a n t S h i p ­
t o t h e Forces (for M i n u t e 9 ) .
b u i l d i n g (for M i n u t e 7 ) .
-
M a j o r - G e n e r a l G. P . T.
C.B.,
S I R STEPHENSON K E N T , K . C . B . , C o n t r o l l e r -
C.M.G., D.S.O., G e n e r a l Officer Com­
m a n d i n g , Loncbn D i s t r i c t (for M i n u t e 9).
T h e R i g h t Hon] LORD W E I R OF E A S T WOOD, Secretajy of S t a t e for the R o y a l
A i r Force.
M a j o r - G e n e r a l SIR F . H. S Y K E S , K . C . B . ,
C.M.G., Chief of t h e R o v a l A i r Staff.
M a j o r J . L. BALED, C.M.G., D . S . O . , M . P . ,
Parliamentary: Secretary, Air Ministry
(for Minute 1)1
G e n e r a l of C i v i l D e m o b i l i s a t i o n a n d
R e s e t t l e m e n t , M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r (for
M i n u t e s 4 to 7 ) .
T h e R i g h t Hon. S I R J . M A C L A T , B a r t . ,
S h i p p i n g C o n t r o l l e r (for M i n u t e s 4 to 7 ) .
The
Right
In.
C.
FEILDING,
ADDISON,
M.D.,
M . P . , Minister of R e c o n s t r u c t i o n
M i n u t e s 5 to 7).
Mr.
VAUGKAN
; NASH,
C.V.O.,
J o i n t Secretary, M i n i s t r y
s t r u c t i o n (for Minute 5 ) .
The
Right!
Hon.
E.
of
SHORTT,
(for
C.B.,
Recon­
K.C.,
M . P . , Chief S e c r e t a r y for I r e l a n d (for
M i n u t e 7).
T h e R i g h t jlon. t h e E A R L OF R E A D I N G ,
G . C . B . , KLC.V.O., H i s M a j e s t y ' s H i g h
Commissioier and Special Ambassador
to the United S t a t e s of A m e r i c a (for
Minutes 1 p 7).
The
Right
Hon.
M.P., P r e s i d e n t ,
M i n u t e s 4 to 7 ) .
The
Right
Hon.
SIR
STANLEY,
G.
H . ROBERTS,
(for
M.P.,
M i n i s t e r of L a b o u r (for M i n u t e s 5 to 7 ) .
S I R D . J . SHACKLETON, K . C . B . , P e r m a n e n t
Secretary,
M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r
(for
M i n u t e s 4 t o 7).
The R i g h t Hon. J . HODGE, M . P . , M i n i s t e r
of P e n s i o n s (for M i n u t e s 4 to 7 ) .
S I R J . STEVENSON, B a r t . , M i n i s t r y of
M u n i t i o n s (for M i n u t e s 4 to 7 ) .
SIR
L.
A.
SELBY-BIGGE,
Secretary, Board
M i n u t e 4).
Bart.,
K.C.B.,
of £ ^ e o i J b J n
L i e u t e i a n t - C o l o n e l S I R M. P. A H A N K E Y , K . C . B . ,
Secretary.
C a p t a h CLEMENT JONES, C . B . , Assistant
Secretary.
l i e u t e i a n t - C o l o n e l L . W I L S O N , C.M.G., D . S . O . , M . P . , Assistant
C a p t a i i L . F . BURGIS, Assistant
Secretary.
Mr. T . IONES, Assistant
Secretary.
[826] 1
A.
B o a r d of T r a d e
Secretary.
! :
(for
Soldiers' and
Sailors' PayCommittee.
Gratuities to
Eegular and
Temporary Officers
of the Navy, Army,
and Boyal Air
Force.
1. T H E W a r C a b i n e t h a d u n d e r consideration a m e m o r a n d u m
b y the C h a i r m a n of t h e S o l d i e r s ' a n d S a i l o r s ' P a y Committee d e a l i n g
w i t h t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s of that C o m m i t t e e in r e g a r d to t h e p a y ­
m e n t of w a r g r a t u i t i e s to r e g u l a r a n d t e m p o n r y officers of t h e
Royal Navy, Army, a n d Royal Air Force (Paper GT.-6592).
M r . B a r n e s e x p l a i n e d t h a t t h e C o m m i t t e e , of w h i c h h e w a s
C h a i r m a n , r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t a g r a t u i t y for r e g i l a r officers of t h e
three s e r v i c e s should b e p a i d a t t h e r a t e of s i x t y - s v e n d a y s ' p a y for
t h e first y e a r s service, with i n c r e m e n t s of 1Z. pei m o n t h for r a n k s
u p to l i e u t e n a n t - c o l o n e l ; 21. for colonels a n d Trigadier-generals ;
a n d 31. for h i g h e r r a n k s , for e a c h s u b s e q u e n t m o n h ' s s e r v i c e a b r o a d
after t h e first y e a r , s i m i l a r i n c r e m e n t s b e i n g g i e n to e q u i v a l e n t
r a n k s i n the N a v y . W i t h r e g a r d to t e m p o r a r y oncers, the r a t e of
g r a t u i t y to be p a i d w a s a l r e a d y l a i d d o w n i n articL 497 of the R o y a l
W a r r a n t for P a y of t h e A r m y .
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r e x p r e s s e d the opinion t h t , before t h e W a r
C a b i n e t a p p r o v e d t h e s e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s , it w.s a d v i s a b l e t h a t
F i e l d - M a r s h a l S i r D o u g l a s H a i g s h o u l d be comulted, a s lie w a s
c e r t a i n l y e n t i t l e d to e x p r e s s a n opinion on tiis question.
As
d e m o b i l i s a t i o n of officers w a s now t a k i n g p l a c e , it vas also n e c e s s a r y
t h a t a n a n n o u n c e m e n t shoxild be m a d e on t h i s question as e a r l y a s
possible, a n d Mr. L l o y d G e o r g e therefore suggested t h a t the
F i n a n c i a l S e c r e t a r y to the W a r Office s h o u l d p r o a e d to F r a n c e t h a t
d a y i n order t h a t F i e l d - M a r s h a l H a i g s opinion n i g h t be k n o w n a s
soon a s p o s s i b l e .
r
T h e F i n a n c i a l S e c r e t a r y to t h e W a r Office uncertook to p r o c e e d
to F r a n c e a t once i n o r d e r to c o u s u l t vith F i e l d - M a r s h a l
H a i g on t h i s question.
T h e F i r s t S e a L o r d s a i d ' t h a t t h e B o a r d of A i m i r a l t y , a n d t h e
P a r l i a m e n t a r y S e c r e t a r y to t h e A i r C o u n c i l s a i d thet t h e A i r Council,
h a d a g r e e d i n these r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s of t h e Comnittee, but if a n y
a l t e r a t i o n w a s m a d e i n t h e r a t e s of g r a t u i t y for a r n y officers it w o u l d
b e n e c e s s a r y for the A d m i r a l t y a n d t h e R o y a l A i r Force to r e c o n s i d e r
t h e position from the point of v i e w of t h e i r r e s p e c t v e services.
The W a r Cabinet decided that—
( a . ) T h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s of t h e S o l d i e r s ' a n d S a i l o r s ' P a y
C o m m i t t e e w i t h r e f e r e n c e to t h e scales of war g r a t u i t i e s
to be p a i d to r e g u l a r a n d t e m p o r a r y offeers of t h e N a v y ,
A r m y , a n d R o y a l A i r F o r c e s h o u l d be ipproved, s u b j e c t
to t h e c o n c u r r e n c e of F i e l d - M a r s h a l Sh Douglas H a i g .
(b.) T h e F i n a n c i a l S e c r e t a r y to t h e W a r Office shoxdd p r o c e e d
a t once to F r a n c e to consult w i t h ""ield-Marshal S i r
Douglas H a i g on t h i s question, a n d s(i ould inform Mr.
B a r n e s of the r e s u l t of the consultation.
(c.) No p u b l i c a n n o u n c e m e n t should be m a d e tn the p r e s s u n t i l
Mr. B a r n e s h a d r e c e i v e d the report [of t i e F i n a n c i a l
S e c r e t a r y to t h e W a r Office on h i s return from F r a n c e .
1
The Victualling
and Supply of
Enemy, Allied, and
Neutral Countries.
2. W i t h reference to I m p e r i a l W a r C a b i n e t 48, Minute 6, L o r d
C u r z o n r e a d a t e l e g r a m from P a r i s from L o r d Robart Cecil, i n
w h i c h it w a s s t a t e d t h a t M r . Hoover w a s u r g i n g thkt t h e B r i t i s h
d e l e g a t e s to t h e proposed I n t e r n a t i o n a l C o u n c i l should be a p p o i n t e d
w i t h o u t a n y f u r t h e r d e l a y , a n d should c o m e to P a r i s i m m e d i a t e l y .
I t w a s r e c a l l e d t h a t on the 31st D e c e m b e r , 1918 the I m p e r i a l
W a r C a b i n e t h a d a p p o i n t e d L o r d R e a d i n g a n d Sir JToseph M a c l a y
to s e r v e on the I n t e r n a t i o n a l C o u n c i l .
L o r d R e a d i n g , h o w e v e r , w h o w a s s t r o n g l y pressed to a c c e p t t h e
post of senior B r i t i s h d e l e g a t e , once m o r e e x p r e s s e d great r e l u c t a n c e
to u n d e r t a k e the post. I n v i e w of t h e g r e a t u r g e n c y bf t h e q u e s t i o n ,
he u n d e r t o o k to p r o c e e d to P a r i s w i t h S i r J o h n B tole, a s a p r o ­
(
v i s i o n a l a r r a n g e m e n t , a n d to confer w i t h L o r d R o b e r t C e c i l on t h e
subject.
Mr. C h a m b e r l a i n s u g g e s t e d t h a t if L o r d R e a d i n g c o u l d not see
h i s w a y to s e r v e as the s e n i o r B r i t i s h d e l e g a t e , L o r d R o b e r t C e c i l
s h o u l d be i n v i t e d to act, h a v i n g r e g a r d to the l a t t e r ' s w i d e
e x p e r i e n c e i n i n t e r - A l l i e d food a n d t r a n s p o r t o r g a n i s a t i o n .
L o r d R e a d i n g , h o w e v e r , s a i d t h a t he h a d s p o k e n to L o r d
R o b e r t C e c i l a b o u t it, a n d t h a t L o r d R o b e r t h a d d e c l i n e d to act.
The W a r Cabinet requested—
L o r d C u r z o n to r e p l y to L o r d R o b e r t C e c i l to t h e effect t h a t —
T h e question h a d b e e n b r o u g h t to the C a b i n e t t h a t
m o r n i n g . T h e u r g e n c y of the m a t t e r w a s r e c o g n i s e d .
Lord
R e a d i n g h a d k i n d l y c o n s e n t e d to come over to P a r i s w i t h o u t
delay, and would b r i n g Sir J o h n Beale with him.
These
a r r a n g e m e n t s w o u l d not be p e r m a n e n t , a n d L o r d R e a d i n g
w o u l d d i s c u s s f u t u r e p l a n s on h i s a r r i v a l .
L o r d R e a d i n g u n d e r t o o k to.notify S i r J o h n B e a l e .
Co-ordination of
Demobilisation.
Procedure.
3. W i t h r e f e r e n c e to AVar C a b i n e t 5 1 3 , M i n u t e 2, the War
C a b i n e t h a d before t h e m a M e m o r a n d u m b y S i r E r i c G e d d e s ( P a p e r
G . T . - 6 6 1 2 ) r e l a t i n g to the m i s a p p r e h e n s i o n w h i c h e x i s t e d i n t h e
f o u r t e e n v a r i o u s M i n i s t r i e s c o n c e r n e d i n d e m o b i l i s a t i o n , both a s to
t h e m e a n i n g a n d p u r p o r t of h i s a p p o i n t m e n t a s r e p r e s e n t i n g the
W a r C a b i n e t on the q u e s t i o n of d e m o b i l i s a t i o n , a n d also a s to the
p r o c e d u r e to b e a d o p t e d . S i r E r i c G e d d e s o u t l i n e d i n h i s M e m o ­
r a n d u m the i n s t r u c t i o n s h e s u g g e s t e d s h o u l d be i s s u e d to the
departments concerned.
T h e W a r C a b i n e t a p p r o v e d the adoption of the p r o c e d u r e a s
given in the Appendix.
Question of which
Department should
deal with the
provision of
training for men
and women.
4. T h e W a r C a b i n e t h a d before t h e m a M e m o r a n d u m b y S i r
E r i c G e d d e s ( P a p e r G.T.-(H:')05) r e l a t i n g to the q u e s t i o n of w h i c h
d e p a r t m e n t s h o u l d b e r e s p o n s i b l e for t h e provision of t r a i n i n g for
men and women.
S i r E r i c G e d d e s s a i d t h a t h e h a d g o n e v e r y c a r e f u l l y into the
w h o l e q u e s t i o n , and it a p p e a r e d to h i m t h a t the M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r
w a s t h e a p p r o p r i a t e d e p a r t m e n t to d e a l w i t h t h i s question, e s p e c i a l l y
a s t h e . T r a d e U n i o n s w e r e so v i t a l l y concerned.
He s u g g e s t e d ,
h o w e v e r , t h a t as S i r S t e p h e n s o n K e n t ' s d e p a r t m e n t w a s a l r e a d y
o v e r b u r d e n e d w i t h w o r k , a s e p a r a t e T r a i n i n g Section should be set
u p i n t h e M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r , to w h i c h the e x p e r t staff of S i r
Stephenson Kent's department, which h a d hitherto been dealing
w i t h t h i s question, s h o u l d b e t r a n s f e r r e d . T h e r e w e r e , h o w e v e r ,
t w o other d e p a r t m e n t s w h i c h m i g h t d e a l w i t h t h e question, v i z . , t h e
B o a r d of E d u c a t i o n , b e c a u s e the s c h e m e i n v o l v e d a n e x t e n s i o n of
t h e t e c h n i c a l t r a i n i n g w h i c h t h e B o a r d of E d u c a t i o n a l r e a d y
p r o v i d e d , a n d the M i n i s t r y of P e n s i o n s , b e c a u s e t h a t M i n i s t r y w a s
p r o v i d i n g t h e t r a i n i n g for disabled, s o l d i e r s .
Mr. B a r n e s s a i d t h a t h e t h o u g h t confusion w o u l d r e s u l t if the
t r a i n i n g of d i s a b l e d s o l d i e r s w a s t a k e n a w a y from t h e M i n i s t r y of
P e n s i o n s . It w o u l d also b e n e c e s s a r y to o v e r c o m e t h e difficulty t h a t
s t a t u t o r y provision h a d b e e n m a d e that the M i n i s t r y of Pensions
should deal with this question.
*Mr. C h a m b e r l a i n s a i d t h a t , a s t h e L a b o u r M i n i s t r y w a s offering ­
t r a i n i n g to a l l d i s c h a r g e d m e n , a n d the q u e s t i o n of d i s a b l e d m e n
w a s o n l y a s m a l l p a r t of t h e whole p r o b l e m , h e t h o u g h t t h a t t h e
M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r w a s t h e a p p r o p r i a t e d e p a r t m e n t to b e h e l d
r e s p o n s i b l e for t h e e n t i r e p r o b l e m .
Mr. H o d g e t h e n e x p l a i n e d t h e a r r a n g e m e n t s w h i c h t h e M i n i s t r y
of P e n s i o n s h a d m a d e for d e a l i n g w i t h t h e t r a i n i n g of d i s a b l e d
soldiers. He said that this involved long and complicated negotia­
tions w i t h the T r a d e U n i o n s , w h i c h h a d b e e n g o i n g on for s e v e r a l
m o n t h s . He w a s satisfied t h a t the d i s a b l e d m e n m u s t h a v e t h e
s p e c i a l t r a i n i n g w h i c h t h e y w e r e now r e c e i v i n g .
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r s a i d t h e r e w a s a v a s t n u m b e r of y o u n g
officers a n d m e n w h o , h a d it not been for t h e w a r , would h a v e b e e n
t r a i n e d in some c a p a c i t y or other. H e w a s of opinion t h a t a g r i c u l ­
t u r e opened up a g r e a t p r o s p e c t i n t h i s direction. Tt w a s w o r t h
w h i l e t r a i n i n g a g o o d n u m b e r of the b e t t e r - e d u c a t e d c l a s s e s to p u t
t h e i r b r a i n s into t h e l a n d . T h e r e w e r e s e v e r a l l a r g e h o u s e s w h i c h
h a d been u s e d a s h o s p i t a l s , a n d w h i c h t h e o w n e r s w o u l d i n a l l
p r o b a b i l i t y not b e a b l e to afford to k e e p u p , t h a t m i g h t b e u s e d a s
t r a i n i n g c e n t r e s for a g r i c u l t u r a l p u r p o s e s .
S i r S t e p h e n s o n K e n t s a i d t h a t t h i s p r o b l e m of t r a i n i n g i n
a g r i c u l t u r e w a s a l r e a d y b e i n g dealt w i t h b y the A p p o i n t m e n t s
Department.
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r , c o n t i n u i n g , s a i d t h a t the q u e s t i o n of
t r a i n i n g w a s a v e r y w i d e p r o b l e m , a n d he t h o u g h t t h a t it m i g h t be
p l a c e d a s a w h o l e u n d e r t h e M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r , w h o c o u l d " f a r m
o u t " to the v a r i o u s D e p a r t m e n t s functions w h i c h w e r e t h e i r e s p e c i a l
care.
W i t h r e g a r d to t h e t r a i n i n g of c l a s s e s 6, 7, a n d S of t h e
Memorandum (paragraph 3) under discussion—
Discharged male civil war-workers,
Discharged Service women, and
Discharged women civil war-workers,
S i r E r i c G e d d e s s a i d t h a t the p r o b l e m of d e a l i n g with t h e s e c l a s s e s
w a s d e p e n d e n t on the p a s s a g e of t h e W a r P l e d g e s Bill, and t h e
s u b s e q u e n t d i s c u s s i o n s w i t h T r a d e U n i o n s , a s u n t i l t h e n it would be
i m p o s s i b l e to d e t e r m i n e for w h a t t r a d e s w o m e n should be t r a i n e d .
H e r e c o m m e n d e d t h a t t h e s e t h r e e c a t e g o r i e s should r e c e i v e t r a i n i n g
sxibject to the M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r g o i n g into the question.
S i r David S h a e k l e t o n s a i d t h a t h e w o u l d l i k e the p r o p o s a l s of
the W o m e n ' s T r a d e Council, r e l a t i n g to the t r a i n i n g of women, to be
e x a m i n e d by the W o m e n ' s C o m m i t t e e s w h i c h h a d been set u p i n the
b i g provincial centres.
T h e AVar C a b i n e t decided—'
(a.) To a c c e p t S i r E r i c G e d d e s ' p r o p o s a l s i n p r i n c i p l e , and to
m a k e the M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r g e n e r a l l y r e s p o n s i b l e for
t h e p r o v i s i o n of i n d u s t r i a l t r a i n i n g for m e n a n d w o m e n
as set out i n h i s M e m o r a n d u m ( P a p e r G . T . - 6 6 0 5 ) .
The
M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r s h o u l d , h o w e v e r , consult w i t h o t h e r
D e p a r t m e n t s w h e r e t h e s e a r e concerned, a n d a r r a n g e
w i t h t h e m to c a r r y out t r a i n i n g s c h e m e s w i t h i n t h e i r
r e s p e c t i v e p r o v i n c e s a c c o r d i n g to a c o - o r d i n a t e d p l a n .
(6.) T h a t t h e q u e s t i o n of t h e t r a i n i n g of w o m e n w o r k e r s s h o u l d
r e c e i v e f u r t h e r c o n s i d e r a t i o n i n t h e M i n i s t r y of L a b o u r
before a final d e c i s i o n is g i v e n .
Utilisation of
National Factories.
5. T h e W a r C a b i n e t h a d before t h e m a M e m o r a n d u m b y S i r
E r i c G e d d e s ( P a p e r G . T . - 6 6 0 1 ) w i t h r e g a r d to the u t i l i s a t i o n of
National Factories.
S i r E r i c G e d d e s e x p l a i n e d t h a t t h e r e w e r e four c l a s s e s of
factories for disposal:—Class A. ( a b o u t 16 to 2 0 ) . — F a c t o r i e s w h i c h i t m a y p r o v e
n e c e s s a r y to r e t a i n p e r m a n e n t l y .
Class B (about 8 5 ) . — F a c t o r i e s w h i c h a r e s u i t a b l e for u s e a s
i n d u s t r i a l concerns.
Class C ( a b o u t 2 5 ) . — F a c t o r i e s w h i c h a r e not s u i t a b l e for
i n d u s t r i a l p u r p o s e s , b u t w h i c h w i l l p r o b a b l y be r e q u i r e d ­
d u r i n g the t r a n s i t i o n p e r i o d a s m a g a z i n e s for b r e a k i n g
down a m m u n i t i o n .
Glass D. (about 115).—-Factories w h i c h w i l l r e v e r t to t h e i r
o r i g i n a l o w n e r s a n d to t h e i r p r e - w a r u s e s .
He w a s at the m o m e n t most concerned w i t h the d i s p o s a l of
C l a s s B . He u n d e r s t o o d t h a t the W a r Cabinet h a d a p p r o v e d of t h e
s a l e of t h e s e factories ( W a r C a b i n e t 4 9 1 , M i n u t e 1), a n d t h e
M i n i s t r y of M u n i t i o n s h a d p a s s e d to the M i n i s t r y of R e c o n s t r u c t i o n
t h e n a m e s of t h i r t y factories i n this class.
Dr. A d d i s o n h a d
e x p r e s s e d a g r e e m e n t to t h e s a l e of a l l except two, n a m e l y , t h e
factories at H a c k n e y M a r s h e s a n d Birtlej-. T h e s a l e h a d b e e n i n
t h e h a n d s of S i r H o w a r d F r a n k , but he (Sir H o w a r d F r a n k ) felt a
difficulty i n g o i n g a h e a d , a s it w a s understood t h a t t h e P r i m e
M i n i s t e r h a d m e n t i o n e d i n f o r m a l l y , at a C a b i n e t M e e t i n g , that t h e
s a l e of National F a c t o r i e s w a s a question w h i c h w o u l d h a v e to come
before t h e C a b i n e t as a w h o l e .
The questions Sir Eric Geddes wanted decided w e r e : —
(i.) Does the C a b i n e t d e c i d e t h a t the Government i s not g o i n g
to e m b a r k on a p o l i c y of t a k i n g over factories for S t a t e
m a n u f a c t u r e a n d s a l e of a r t i c l e s ?
(ii.) W e r e factories for w h i c h permission to sell h a d b e e n g i v e n
to be offered on p r e f e r e n t i a l terms e i t h e r to T r a d e U n i o n s ,
L o c a l A u t h o r i t i e s , or Co-operative Societies ?
S i r E r i c G e d d e s s a i d t h a t t h e r e w a s a good deal to be s a i d i n
f a v o u r of the t h r e e bodies m e n t i o n e d above b e i n g g i v e n p r e f e r e n c e ,
other things being equal.
Sir J a m e s S t e v e n s o n s a i d that it w a s impossible to m a n u f a c t u r e
a n y t r a d e a r t i c l e s in these factories u n l e s s a s e l l i n g o r g a n i s a t i o n w a s
a t t a c h e d to the factory. T h e r e w e r e , however, a c e r t a i n n u m b e r of
t h i n g s of w h i c h the G o v e r n m e n t w a s a very l a r g e b u y e r , a n d if t h e
G o v e r n m e n t n e e d e d these t h i n g s there would be no q u e s t i o n of
e n t e r i n g into competition w i t h the p r i v a t e t r a d e r . F o r e x a m p l e ,
P o s t Office c a b l e s w a s one of these a r t i c l e s .
Sir A l b e r t S t a n l e y s t a t e d that the
English
railways
m a n u f a c t u r e d t h e i r own locomotives, and t h e r e w a s no c h a n c e for
a n y g r e a t p r i v a t e e n t e r p r i s e i n t h i s i n d u s t r y , w i t h the r e s u l t that w e
h a d no locomotives to export. H e u r g e d s t r o n g l y t h a t the factories
s h o u l d not proceed a l o n g n a t i o n a l l i n e s , as it w o u l d p r e j u d i c e t h e
d e v e l o p m e n t of t h e p r i v a t e t r a d e r . He i n s t a n c e d the e x t r a o r d i n a r y
cost of W o o l w i c h , w h i c h , in h i s opinion, w a s the foundation of our
i n d u s t r i a l difficulties, d u r i n g t h e w a r .
E n t e r p r i s e b a c k e d b y the
S t a t e , once it h a d s t a r t e d , m u s t continue, a n d w a s bound, i n h i s
v i e w , to compete with the p r i v a t e t r a d e r .
S i r J a m e s S t e v e n s o n differed from S i r A l b e r t S t a n l e y ' s v i e w
w i t h r e g a r d to W o o l w i c h .
T h e p r i c e s at W o o l w i c h , h e s a i d ,
e n a b l e d u s to r e d u c e p r i c e s to l o c a l m a n u f a c t u r e r s .
Also, o u r
e x p e r i e n c e g a i n e d d u r i n g the w a r h a d r e d u c e d t h e cost.
Mr. C h a m b e r l a i n s a i d t h e r e w a s the g r e a t e s t difnciilty i n
r e d u c i n g t h e n u m b e r of m e n e m p l o y e d a t W o o l w i c h . T h e r e c o r d
t h e r e h a d been a c y c l e of d i s c h a r g e , distress, a n d d e p u t a t i o n s . If
t h e s e i n s t i t u t i o n s w e r e m u l t i p l i e d a l l over the c o u n t r y i t w o u l d
h a v e a v e r y h a r m f u l effect.
Mr. M o n t a g u a s k e d , if t h e s e factories were sold, w o u l d they be
a l l o w e d to p r o d u c e m u n i t i o n s .
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r p o i n t e d out t h a t t h e L e a g u e of N a t i o n s m i g h t
p r o h i b i t t h e p r i v a t e m a n u f a c t u r e of m u n i t i o n s , a n d a n y b u y e r s of
f a c t o r i e s m u s t not be u n d e r a m i s a p p r e h e n s i o n i n t h i s d i r e c t i o n .
T h e decision t h e y h a d to a r r i v e a t on this question w a s a n i m p o r t a n t
one. H e w o u l d l i k e to k n o w if the factories c o u l d be of a n y use i n
p r o d u c i n g m a t e r i a l for t r a n s p o r t a t i o n .
S i r A l b e r t S t a n l e y s a i d h e d i d not t h i n k t h e y w o u l d b e of t h e
s l i g h t e s t use. H e h a d h a d a c a r e f u l i n v e s t i g a t i o n m a d e of t h e
[826]
C
w h o l e t r a d e s i t u a t i o n of "the c o u n t r y , a n d h e h a d found t h a t t r a d e
w a s s t a g n a t i n g a t the p r e s e n t t i m e , a n d t h e r e w e r e h a r d l y a n y
s i g n s of d e v e l o p m e n t . W h e t h e r or not the G o v e r n m e n t w a s g o i n g
to m a n u f a c t u r e a r t i c l e s for its o w n u s e w a s g i v e n a s o n e of the
e x p l a n a t i o n s of t h i s s t a g n a t i o n .
S i r E r i c G e d d e s s a i d t h a t t h e r e w e r e s e v e r a l other r e a s o n s for
t h e s l a c k n e s s of t r a d e , s u c h a s t h e u n c e r t a i n t y of p r i c e s , w a g e s ,
l a b o u r , the W a r P l e d g e s Bill, t a x a t i o n , &c.
Mr. C h a m b e r l a i n s a i d t h a t , t a k i n g t r a n s p o r t a t i o n i n i t s w i d e s t
sense, w e h a d a w o r l d - m a r k e t for s t e e l r a i l s , a n d if w e set u p
n a t i o n a l factories to p r o d u c e t h e s e i t w o u l d k n o c k o u t p r i v a t e
e n t e r p r i s e . H e g a v e a s a n e x a m p l e of t h e good r e s u l t s a c h i e v e d
from t h e c o n t r a r y p r i n c i p l e t h e b u i l d i n g of b a t t l e s h i p s .
The
G o v e r n m e n t p l a c e d l a r g e o r d e r s w i t h p r i v a t e firms, and t h i s e n a b l e d
t h e p r i v a t e firms to obtain f o r e i g n o r d e r s .
S i r A l b e r t S t a n l e y , r e f e r r i n g to t h e m a n u f a c t u r e of s t e e l r a i l s ,
s a i d t h a t it cost u s now 15Z. a ton, w h e r e a s t h e cost i n t h e U n i t e d
S t a t e s w a s o n l y 101 a ton, a n d , a s far a s h e c o u l d see, t h e r e w a s not
the r e m o t e s t c h a n c e of our g e t t i n g b a c k t h i s t r a d e . O u r p r e s e n t
steel p o s i t i o n j w a s w o r s e t h a n i t h a d e v e r b e e n before. W e c o u l d
m a n u f a c t u r e s t e e l i n t h i s c o u n t r y c h e a p e r t h a n i n the U n i t e d S t a t e s ,
b u t t h e t r a d e w o u l d not i n v e s t t h e c a p i t a l r e q u i r e d to e r e c t up-to-date
mills.
Mr. R o b e r t s s a i d t h a f i f y o u e m b a r k e d on t r a d e y o u h a d g o t to
b e a monopolist. If t h e G o v e r n m e n t e n t e r e d i n t o t r a d e , s t a g n a t i o n
w o u l d r e m a i n a n d u n e m p l o y m e n t w o u l d b e c o m e g r e a t e r t h a n it w a s
to-day. W e c o u l d not afford to e m b a r k u p o n s u c h a n e n t e r p r i s e at
this stage.
Mr. BonaY L a w f s u g g e s t e d t h a t t h e M i n i s t r y of M u n i t i o n s s h o u l d
m a k e a l i s t of a n y a r t i c l e s t h e y c o n t e m p l a t e d t h e n a t i o n a l factories
could manufacture.
The W a r Cabinet decided that—
(a.) T h e M i n i s t r y of M u n i t i o n s should b e i n s t r u c t e d to p r o c e e d
w i t h t h e l e a s t p o s s i b l e d e l a y , s u b j e c t to t h e i r d i s c r e t i o n
a s to w h a t factories s h o u l d be m a i n t a i n e d for a r m a m e n t
p r o d u c t i o n , w i t h t h e s a l e of t h e e i g h t y - f i v e factories
m e n t i o n e d i n C l a s s B of S i r E r i c G e d d e s ' M e m o r a n d u m
( P a p e r G . T . - 6 6 0 1 ) , g i v i n g p r e f e r e n c e , other t h i n g s b e i n g
e q u a l , to T r a d e U n i o n s , C o - o p e r a t i v e S o c i e t i e s , L o c a l
Authorities, and Public Utility Societies, within the
l i m i t s of l e g i t i m a t e local e n t e r p r i s e . I n t h e s e t r a n s a c t i o n s
t h e M i n i s t r y of M u n i t i o n s s h o u l d consult t h e M i n i s t r y of
Roconstruction as hitherto.
(6.) T h e S t a t e w i l l not c o m p e t e w i t h p r i v a t e e n t e r p r i s e i n t h e
m a n u f a c t u r e of a r t i c l e s of g e n e r a l t r a d e .
(c.) S u b j e c t to (6), a n d w i t h a v i e w to a d e c i s i o n a s to the
p o s s i b l e u t i l i s a t i o n for S t a t e p u r p o s e s of s o m e of t h e
f a c t o r i e s m e n t i o n e d ' above, t h e M i n i s t r y of M u n i t i o n s
s h o u l d at once p r e p a r e a r e p o r t of a r t i c l e s w h i c h t h e y
c o n s i d e r a n y specific n a t i o n a l factory c o u l d m a k e w i t h o u t
a s a l e s d e p a r t m e n t b e i n g a t t a c h e d to it, a n d of w h i c h t h e
G o v e r n m e n t w i l l b e t h e sole b u y e r s . A f t e r d i s c u s s i o n
w i t h S i r E r i c G e d d e s , the P r e s i d e n t of t h e B o a r d of
T r a d e , a n d the M i n i s t e r of R e c o n s t r u c t i o n , t h e l i s t s h o u l d
b e b r o u g h t before t h e C a b i n e t for final a p p r o v a l .
Future Shipping
Policy.
6. W i t h r e f e r e n c e to I m p e r i a l W a r C a b i n e t 4 3 , M i n u t e 7, t h e
W a r C a b i n e t took note of t h e d e c i s i o n a r r i v e d a t b y t h e C o m m i t t e e
a p p o i n t e d to c o n s i d e r t h e s h i p p i n g p o l i c y , a l s o t h e d i s p o s a l of
G o v e r n m e n t s h i p s , &c. ( P a p e r G . T . - 6 5 4 4 ) . I t w a s e x p l a i n e d t h a t
the Committee; had unanimously approved the policy in regard
to s h i p p i n g and s h i p s set out i n the M i n i s t r y of S h i p p i n g
Memoranda (Papers G.T.-6472 and 6482), but that subsequently
Mr. H u g h e s who h a d been r e p r e s e n t e d on the C o m m i t t e e , h a d
d i s s e n t e d from t h e c o n c l u s i o n s a r r i v e d at ( P a p e r G . T . - 6 5 6 4 ) .
The Shipping Controller stated that arrangements were being
m a d e w i t h a n u m b e r of s h i p p i n g p e o p l e who h a d lost s h i p s l a r g e l y
d u r i n g the p e r i o d of the w a r , w h e r e b y a l a r g e block of t o n n a g e n o w
b u i l d i n g to the o r d e r of t h e G o v e r n m e n t w o u l d b e t a k e n over a t
w h a t t h e S h i p p i n g C o n t r o l l e r h o p e d would show c o m p a r a t i v e l y
l i t t l e , if a n y , loss to t h e G o v e r n m e n t .
National Shipyards.
7. T h e W a r C a b i n e t h a d before t h e m a M e m o r a n d u m b y t h e
S h i p p i n g Controller, i n w h i c h a d e c i s i o n w a s a s k e d for w i t h
r e f e r e n c e to t h e d i s p o s a l of n a t i o n a l s h i p y a r d s on t h e b a s i s of a s a l e
at c u r r e n t v a l u e , to b e d e t e r m i n e d b y i n d e p e n d e n t a r b i t r a t o r s
m u t u a l l y appointed (Paper G.T.-6543), together with a Memorandum
b y the P r e s i d e n t of the B o a r d of T r a d e i n f a v o u r of t h e i r d i s p o s a l
(Taper G . T . - 6 5 9 9 ) , a n d a M e m o r a n d u m b y M r . B a r n e s , d i s s e n t i n g
(Paper G.T.-655S).
Sir Joseph Maclay said that there were three shipyards
i n q u e s t i o n . T h e o r i g i n a l i n t e n t i o n h a d b e e n to p r o v i d e t h i r t y
slips. T h e y a r d s w e r e a p p r o a c h i n g completion, a n d it w o u l d b e
n e c e s s a r y t h a t the;/ s h o u l d be c o m p l e t e d , b u t t h e r e w-as no r e a s o n
w h y t h e y s h o u l d t h e n b e used b y the G o v e r n m e n t to b u i l d s h i p s .
U p to t h e p r e s e n t not a s h i p had b e e n t u r n e d out, a n d t h e k e e l s of
only s i x h a d been l a i d .
T h e cost of t h e y a r d s , & c , u p to t h e
p r e s e n t h a d b e e n about 6,OOO.O0OZ,, a n d p r o b a b l y about t w o - t h i r d s
of t h i s w o u l d h a v e to be w r i t t e n off as w a r loss. AVith r e f e r e n c e
to the fabricated s h i p s , t h e y h a d p r o v e d to be v e r y e x p e n s i v e ,
though they might ultimately become a success.
Mr. B a r n e s m a i n t a i n e d t h a t it w o u l d b e p o l i t i c a l l y i n a d v i s a b l e
to dispose of the y a r d s at p r e s e n t , a n d that t h e e x p e r i m e n t of S t a t e
o w n e r s h i p a n d o p e r a t i o n shoiild b e c o n t i n u e d . Our e x p e r i e n c e i n
the e a r l y d a y s of t h e w a r h a d s h o w n t h a t a n u m b e r of our s h i p b u i l d e r s
b a d f a l l e n b e h i n d i n t h e o r g a n i s a t i o n a n d e q u i p m e n t of t h e i r y a r d s ,
a n d u n l e s s s o m e t h i n g w a s done to s t i m u l a t e t h e m t h e y w o u l d be i n
d a n g e r - of b e i n g e c l i p s e d b y A m e r i c a n s h i p b u i l d e r s . It w o u l d b e
r e g a r d e d a s a s e v e r e blow to S t a t e e n t e r p r i s e if y a r d s w h i c h h a d
cost 6,000,000Z. w e r e sold to p r i v a t e o w n e r s for 2,000,000L
T h e v i e w w a s g e n e r a l l y e x p r e s s e d t h a t t h e s t i m u l u s r e f e r r e d to
b y M r . B a r n e s a s n e c e s s a r y would not r e a d i l y be s u p p l i e d b y S t a t e
s h i p b u i l d i n g , nor w a s it p r o b a b l e t h a t t h e y a r d s w o u l d b e
e c o n o m i c a l l y w o r k e d . F u r t h e r , if it w e r e p r o p o s e d to r e s t r i c t t h e
s h i p y a r d s to b u i l d i n g one t y p e of vessel, t h e S t a t e would t h e n h a v e
the monopoly of t h a t t y p e a n d w o u l d not be s u b j e c t to t h e s t i m u l u s
of free competition.
L o r d P i r r i e (who a r r i v e d at t h i s s t a g e of t h e d i s c u s s i o n ) s a i d
t h a t t h e G o v e r n m e n t h a d g i v e n a p l e d g e to the s h i p b u i l d e r s t h a t
t h e n a t i o n a l s h i p y a r d s w e r e b e i n g set u p s o l e l y for w a r e m e r g e n c y
p u r p o s e s , a n d w o u l d not s u b s e q u e n t l y b e a l l o w e d to compete w i t h
ordinary shipbuilding: The Government would be placed in an
a w k w a r d position if t h e y now d e p a r t e d from t h a t p l e d g e . I n h i s
opinion, h a d the w a r c o n t i n u e d for some t i m e , t h e n a t i o n a l s h i p y a r d s
w o u l d h a v e p r o v e d a n e n o r m o u s s u c c e s s ; b u t , o w i n g to t h e
a r m i s t i c e , i t w a s n e c e s s a r y to r e v i e w the situation. H e w a s opposed
to s h i p b u i l d i n g b y the S t a t e i n p e a c e t i m e , b u t , i n order to a v o i d
friction, h e w o u l d a d v i s e t h e r e t e n t i o n , for some m o n t h s , of one of
t h e y a r d s ( F i n c h ' s ) , a n d t h e disposal of t h e o t h e r two.
Finch's
y a r d could a b s o r b a n a d d i t i o n a l 2 , 0 0 0 m e n , a n d it could p e r h a p s b e
sold to b e t t e r a d v a n t a g e i n , say, s i x m o n t h s ' t i m e .
L o r d R e a d i n g stated t h a t s i m i l a r d i s c u s s i o n s w e r e t a k i n g p l a c e
i n t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s , w h e r e it w a s e s t i m a t e d t h a t t h e l o s s on s o m e
s h i p b u i l d i n g e n t e r p r i s e s w o u l d r u n to 40,000,OOOZ.
I t w a s g e n e r a l l y a g r e e d t h a t , if t h e y a r d s w e r e to b e sold, t h e y
h a d better b e sold at one t i m e , i n order to avoid a r e p e t i t i o n of a n y
public agitation.
Dr. A d d i s o n s u g g e s t e d t h a t t h e r e m i g h t b e less opposition if
t h e y a r d s w e r e l e a s e d a n d not sold.
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r said it w o u l d b e u s e f u l if S i r J o s e p h
M a b l a y could a s c e r t a i n if t h e y a r d s c o u l d not be t a k e n o v e r
u n d e r some form of co-operative a r r a n g e m e n t .
There would be
c o n s i d e r a b l e a d v a n t a g e if w o r k m e n could i n t h a t w a y b e b r o u g h t
to r e a l i s e some of the difficulties of o r g a n i s i n g a l a r g e e n t e r p r i s e .
Dr. A d d i s o n t h o u g h t t h a t s e m i - p u b l i c b o d i e s l i k e r a i l w a y
c o m p a n i e s m i g h t be g i v e n a p r e f e r e n t i a l option to b u y t h e y a r d s
after the co-operators a n d t r a d e . u n i o n i s t s , b u t it w a s pointed out
t h a t t h e r e w e r e s e r i o u s d r a w b a c k s to r a i l w a y c o m p a n i e s e x t e n d i n g
t h e i r control over t h e m a n u f a c t u r e of t h e i r own p l a n t .
The W a r Cabinet decided—
To a p p r o v e t h e proposal of the S h i p p i n g C o n t r o l l e r to dispose
of t h e y a r d s .
M r ] B a r n e s a s k e d t h a t h i s d i s s e n t s h o u l d be r e c o r d e d .
Demobilisation of
the Eoyal Air
Force.
Demobilisation.
8. W i t h r e f e r e n c e to a m e m o r a n d u m b y t h e S e c r e t a r y for the
A i r F o r c e ( P a p e r D . N . - 2 ) , L o r d W e i r s t a t e d t h a t he w o u l d l i k e a
v e r y e a r l y C a b i n e t decision on t h e p o s t - w a r s t r e n g t h of the R o y a l
A i r F o r c e , a s r e q u e s t e d in h i s m e m o r a n d u m ( P a p e r G . T . - 6 4 7 8 ) .
I t w a s i m p o s s i b l e to p r o c e e d s a t i s f a c t o r i l y w i t h the p r o b l e m s of
d e m o b i l i s a t i o n u n l e s s s u c h d e c i s i o n w a s forthcoming, a n d he w a s
a f r a i d f u r t h e r d e l a y m i g h t l e a d to t r o u b l e , e s p e c i a l l y a s the staff of
t h e A i r F o r c e w a s on a t e m p o r a r y b a s i s .
9. T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r i n f o r m e d t h e * W a r C a b i n e t t h a t he h a d
j u s t l e a r n e d t h a t some 1,500 s o l d i e r s , b e l o n g i n g to the A r m y S e r v i c e
Demonstrations by !. C o r p s at P a r k R o y a l , h a d a r r i v e d i n D o w n i n g S t r e e t a n d w e r e
Soldiers.
a s k i n g for a n i n t e r v i e w with h i m .
G e n e r a l S i r W i l l i a m R o b e r t s o n s t a t e d t h a t n e w s of disaffection
at this centre had been received the previous evening, and a n
a t t e m p t h a d b e e n m a d e to d i s s u a d e t h e m e n from m a r c h i n g to
W h i t e h a l l , b u t w i t h o u t s u c c e s s . T h e y h a d been i n t e r c e p t e d t h a t
m o r n i n g i n E d g w a r e R o a d , a n d it w a s i n t e n d e d to d i v e r t t h e m to
t h e Horse G u a r d s P a r a d e , b u t a p p a r e n t l y t h e y h a d s u c c e e d e d i n
r e a c h i n g D o w n i n g Street. T h e d e l e g a t e s of t h e s o l d i e r s had p u t
forward their grievances in reasonable l a n g u a g e , and he (Sir
W i l l i a m ) w a s p r e p a r e d to b e l i e v e t h a t some of t h e g r i e v a n c e s w e r e
g e n u i n e . T h e y c o m p l a i n e d of b e i n g c a l l e d a t an u n r e a s o n a b l y e a r l y
h o u r , a n d of the b a d n e s s of the food s e r v e d to t h e m . H e h a d a s k e d
t h a t the d e l e g a t e s should be sent to see h i m .
T h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r s a i d h e w a s q u i t e p r e p a r e d to see t h e
d e l e g a t e s or the. s o l d i e r s i n a b o d y if the W a r C a b i n e t t h o u g h t t h a t
woxdd be t h e r i g h t course. I n a n y c a s e it w a s d e s i r a b l e t h a t a
s t a t e m e n t on d e m o b i l i s a t i o n s h o u l d be m a d e at t h e e a r l i e s t p o s s i b l e
m o m e n t , a n d i n some w a y l i k e l y to a t t r a c t w i d e s p r e a d p u b l i c
attention. It m i g h t be best to s e n d t h e m e n h o m e a n d to r e c e i v e
t h e d e l e g a t e s o n l y t h a t afternoon, a n d the p o l i c y of t h e G o v e r n m e n t
c o u l d be f u l l y e x p l a i n e d to t h e m , a n d in t h a t w a y b e m a d e p u b l i c .
L o r d M i l n e r s a i d h e d o u b t e d t h e w i s d o m of t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r
s e e i n g the s o l d i e r s or t h e i r r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s , a s it w o u l d form a b a d
p r e c e d e n t , a n d s i m i l a r processions w o u l d a t t e m p t to m a r c h to
L o n d o n from o t h e r p a r t s of t h e c o u n t r y . I t w a s i m p o r t a n t to m a k e
i t p e r f e c t l y p l a i n to the soldiers t h a t such processions w o u l d not be
allowed.
If t h e r e w e r e l e g i t i m a t e g r i e v a n c e s t h e r e w e r e p r o p e r
c h a n n e l s t h r o u g h w h i c h r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s m i g h t be m a d e . T h e W a r
Office took p a r t i c u l a r c a r e to d e a l w i t h a n y g r i e v a n c e s w h i c h w e r e
r e p o r t e d to t h e m . If, on t h e other h a n d , t h e t e n d e n c y to i n d i s c i p l i n e
a n d d i s o r d e r w e r e a l l o w e d to s p r e a d u n c h e c k e d , the r e s u l t s m i g h t
p r o v e to be s e r i o u s .
T h e Chief of t h e I m p e r i a l G e n e r a l Staff s t r o n g l y d i s l i k e d t h e
s u g g e s t i o n t h a t t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r s h o u l d confer w i t h s o l d i e r s '
d e l e g a t e s w h o h a d d i s r e g a r d e d t h e i r officers.
The soldiers'
d e l e g a t i o n b o r e a d a n g e r o u s r e s e m b l a n c e to a S o v i e t . If s u c h a
p r a c t i c e w e r e to s p r e a d , t h e c o n s e q u e n c e s w o u l d b e d i s a s t r o u s .
H e h a d h e a r d of no g e n u i n e case of b a d f e e d i n g . If t h e P r i m e
M i n i s t e r w e r e to m e e t the s o l d i e r s at all, h e s h o u l d p r e f e r t h a t t h e
w h o l e b o d y of s o l d i e r s should be a d d r e s s e d b y h i m , a n d not the
d e l e g a t e s only.
S i r E r i c G e d d e s s u g g e s t e d t h a t t h e m e n m i g h t b e d r a w n up
i n the H o r s e G u a r d s P a r a d e in m i l i t a r y formation, u n d e r t h e i r
officers, a n d t h a t t h e n t h e y m i g h t be a d d r e s s e d b y the P r i m e
Minister.
G e n e r a l S i r W i l l i a m R o b e r t s o n e x p l a i n e d t h a t t h e officers w e r e
not w i t h t h e m e n .
G e n e r a l F e i l d i n g (who e n t e r e d at t h i s s t a g e ) s t a t e d t h a t the
m e n w e r e now at the Horse G u a r d s P a r a d e , a n d t h a t t h e i r
g r i e v a n c e s , so far a s he h a d b e e n a b l e to a s c e r t a i n from t h e i r
d e l e g a t e s , c o n s i s t e d of m i s u n d e r s t a n d i n g s a b o u t , d e m o b i l i s a t i o n ,
c o m p l a i n t s of o v e r c r o w d i n g a n d bad f e e d i n g , a n d about the
d i s t r i b u t i o n of g r a t u i t i e s to old r e g u l a r s o l d i e r s . T h e y r e f u s e d
to a c c e p t h i s a n s w e r s , on t h e g r o u n d that t h e y w e r e u n d e r G e n e r a l
AVbolcom be, of t h e E a s t e r n C o m m a n d .
He t h o u g h t t h e m e n
w o u l d r e t u r n to c a m p if t h e y w e r e seen b y S i r W i l l i a m R o b e r t s o n
a n d i n f o r m e d t h a t t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r w a s about t o d s s u e a s t a t e m e n t
on d e m o b i l i s a t i o n .
L o r d M i l n e r s a i d that i n the n e i g h b o u r h o o d of L o n d o n t h e r e
w e r e some 50,0U0 m e n b e l o n g i n g to t h e A r m y S e r v i c e Corps, the
m a j o r i t y of w h o m h a d been e n g a g e d chiefly i n c i v i l w o r k , a n d h a d
not h a d m u c h e x p e r i e n c e of s t r i c t a r m y d i s c i p l i n e . T h e y b y no
m e a n s confined t h e i r g r i e v a n c e s to Questions of demobilisation, b u t
r a i s e d q u e s t i o n s of food and h o u r s .
T h e Q u a r t e r m a s t e r - G e n e r a l s a i d no c o m p l a i n t s of the b a d n e s s
or insufficiency of food had r e a c h e d h i m . T h e m e n a t P a r k R o y a l
were being employed in driving and riding instructions and vehicle
i n s t r u c t i o n s , & c , b u t h e did not k n o w w h e t h e r t h e r e w a s a n y t r u t h
i n the s t a t e m e n t t h a t they w e r e c a l l e d out to w o r k a t 5.30 a.m., a s
t h i s q u e s t i o n of i n t e r i o r e c o n o m y w a s a m a t t e r for the G e n e r a l
Officer C o m m a n d i n g t h e D i s t r i c t .
L o r d W e i r s a i d that o n l y one c o m p l a i n t w i t h r e g a r d to food
h a d r e a c h e d h i m , b u t there h a d b e e n d e m a n d s for a 4 4 - h o u r s w e e k ,
a n d i n h i s opinion there w o u l d p r e s e n t l y be d e m a n d s for w a g e s a t
civilian rates.
G e n e r a l F e i l d i n g , in r e p l y to a q u e s t i o n b y the P r i m e M i n i s t e r ,
s a i d t h a t at p r e s e n t only a s m a l l m i n o r i t y of t h e troops w e r e
disaffected, b u t t h a t the a g i t a t i o n w o u l d s p r e a d if d e m o n s t r a t i o n s
w e r e not p r o h i b i t e d .
T h e P r i m e Minister said they must be quite sure that any steps
t h e y d e c i d e d on w i t h a view to s u p p r e s s i n g the d e m o n s t r a t i o n s t h a t
w e r e t a k i n g p l a c e w e r e c e r t a i n to be successful.
T h e y h a d to
r e c o g n i s e that t h e position w a s i n e v i t a b l y one of g r e a t difficulty.
B e t w e e n four a n d five m i l l i o n s of m e n h a d b e e n u n d e r g o i n g for
y e a r s t h e s e v e r e s t r a i n of w a r , w i t h d e a t h c o n f r o n t i n g t h e m .
That
s t r a i n h a d s u d d e n l y ceased, a n d a v i o l e n t r e a c t i o n w a s n a t u r a l ,
e s p e c i a l l y a s n i n e - t e n t h s of t h e m e n k n e w t h a t t h e y w o u l d not s e r v e
a s s o l d i e r s a g a i n , a n d saw a r o u n d t h e m c i v i l i a n s d r a w i n g v e r y h i g h
r a t e s of p a y .
S i r E r i c G e d d e s pointed out t h a t some of t h e p r e v a i l i n g
d i s c o n t e n t w a s d u e to the effort w h i c h h a d b e e n m a d e to k e e p t h e
b a l a n c e e v e n b e t w e e n the r a t e s of d e m o b i l i s a t i o n of the forces a t
h o m e a n d a b r o a d . T o do t h i s i t h a d b e e n n e c e s s a r y to k e e p m e n
back at home who could h a v e been released. The men k n e w this,
[826]
D
a n d feared t h a t t h e y w e r e b e i n g k e p t b a c k w i t h a v i e w to s e n d i n g
t h e m to R u s s i a . It h a d n o w b e e n a r r a n g e d w i t h L o r d M i l n e r to
g i v e u p the a t t e m p t to m a i n t a i n e q u a l i t y i n t h e r a t e of d e m o b i l i s a ­
t i o n b e t w e e n the forces a t h o m e and a b r o a d .
I n r e p l y to an o b s e r v a t i o n b y L o r d W e i r , i t w a s a g r e e d t h a t t h e
q u e s t i o n of a r r a n g i n g u n i f o r m i t y i n the s e t t l e m e n t of food, h o u r s ,
a n d s i m i l a r q u e s t i o n s w a s one for m u t u a l a g r e e m e n t b e t w e e n t h e
three services concerned.
The W a r Cabinet requested—
G e n e r a l S i r W i l l i a m R o b e r t s o n to m e e t t h e d e l e g a t e s of t h e
s o l d i e r s a s s e m b l e d i n the Horse G u a r d s ' P a r a d e , a n d to
i n f o r m t h e m t h a t officers w o u l d b e sent at once to P a r k
R o y a l to i n v e s t i g a t e t h e i r a l l e g e d g r i e v a n c e s ; t h a t a n y
g r i e v a n c e s w h i c h r e a c h e d the G o v e r n m e n t t h r o u g h t h e
p r o p e r c h a n n e l s w o u l d r e c e i v e the c o n s i d e r a t i o n of t h e
P r i m e M i n i s t e r a n d t h e S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for W a r , a n d
t h a t the P r i m e M i n i s t e r , in considtation w i t h the S e c r e t a r y
of S t a t e for W a r , w a s p r e p a r i n g a s t a t e m e n t on d e m o b i l i s a ­
tion, w h i c h w o u l d a p p e a r i n t h e p r e s s on t h e f o l l o w i n g
morning.
2 , Whitehall
Gardens,
S.W.1,
January
8, 1 9 1 9 .
APPENDIX.
CO-ORDINATION
OF
DEMOBILISATION—PROCEDURE.
" S i r E r i c G e d d e s , a s M i n i s t e r i n c h a r g e of t h e C o - o r d i n a t i o n of D e m o b i l i s a t i o n
a n d t h e R e h a b i l i t a t i o n of I n d u s t r y , will i n no w a y u s u r p t h e e x e c u t i v e f u n c t i o n s
of t h e M i n i s t e r s at p r e s e n t r e s p o n s i b l e .
" In the event of a n y M i n i s t r y w i s h i n g to o b t a i n C a b i n e t a u t h o r i t y on a n y
s u b j e c t d i r e c t l y concerned w i t h D e m o b i l i s a t i o n , t h e M i n i s t e r r e s p o n s i b l e w i l l
s u b m i t a m e m o r a n d u m to the W a r C a b i n e t i n t h e o r d i n a r y w a y , a n d i n c a s e of
difference of opinion b e t w e e n M i n i s t e r s w h i c h t h e y fail to r e c o n c i l e after
conference, e a c h M i n i s t e r will s u b m i t a m e m o r a n d u m , j o i n t l y if p o s s i b l e .
" T h i s m e m o r a n d u m will e i t h e r be d e a l t w i t h b y t h e W a r C a b i n e t i n the
u s u a l w a y , or b y S i r E r i c G e d d e s , a s m a y b e d e c i d e d .
" T h e W a r C a b i n e t S e c r e t a r i a t w i l l s u m m o n m e e t i n g s of t h e M i n i s t e r s
c o n c e r n e d i n s u c h m e m o r a n d a e i t h e r for full m e e t i n g s of t h e W a r C a b i n e t or for
Sir Eric Geddes' meetings.
" I n t h e e v e n t of S i r E r i c G e d d e s d e s i r i n g r e t u r n s or information, or w i s h i n g
to i n i t i a t e proposals, t h e W a r C a b i n e t S e c r e t a r i a t w i l l c o m m u n i c a t e w i t h the
D e p a r t m e n t s concerned.
" I n q u e s t i o n s of e m e r g e n c y w h e r e the a b o v e p r o c e d u r e i s too slow, t h e
M i n i s t e r c o n c e r n e d w i l l a p p l y to the W a r C a b i n e t a n d t h e question w i l l be dealt
w i t h on t h e a b o v e p r i n c i p l e s , b u t in a less formal w a y .
" I n o r d e r to f a c i l i t a t e a n d e x p e d i t e the t r a n s a c t i o n of b u s i n e s s , S i r E r i c
G e d d e s h a s a p p o i n t e d as h i s a s s i s t a n t s S i r P o b e r t H o m e , S i r R h y s W i l l i a m s ,
Mr. Morz, and L i e u t e n a n t - C o l o n e l M c L e l l a n , M a j o r - G e n e r a l S i r P h i l i p N a s h ,
w i t h M r . R. P. D u n n e l l as S e c r e t a r y , a n d L i e u t e n a n t - C o l o n e l J . G. B e h a r r e l l
a s S t a t i s t i c i a n . T h e s e officers a r e a u t h o r i s e d to k e e p in touch w i t h a n d c o n s u l t
officers i n t h e v a r i o u s D e p a r t m e n t s in an informal w a y , b u t w i l l g i v e no d i r e c t i o n s
of a n y sort."
2 , Whitehall
Gardens,
S.W.
1919.
6th January,
o