(c) crown copyright
Catalogue Reference:CAB/23/30
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(THIS DOCUMENT I S THE PROPERTY OF HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY*S GOVERNMENT.)
S E C R E T.
C A B I N E T
30
(22)
CONCLUSIONS o f a M e e t i n g o f t h e C a b i n e t h e l d a t 1 0 ,
Downing S t r e e t , S.W. on T u e s d a y , May . 5 0 t h , 1 9 2 2 , a t
1 1 . 3 0 A.M.
PRESENT
THE PRIME MINISTER
(IN THE CHAIR)
The R i g h t H o n . A . C h a m b e r l a i n ,
M. P . , L o r d P r i v y S e a l .
The R i g h t H o n . T h e E a r l o f B a l f o u r ,
K.G., O.M., Lord P r e s i d e n t of t h e
Council.
The R i g h t Hon. The V i s c o u n t
B i r k e n h e a d , Lord C h a n c e l l o r .
The R i g h t Hon. S i r R o b e r t H o m e , G. B . E . ,
K . C . , M . P . , C h a n c e l l o r of t h e Exchequer.
The R i g h t Hon. E . S h o r t t , K . C ,
M, P . , S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r
Home A f f a i r s .
The R i g h t H o n . W . S . C h u r c h i l l , M . P . ,
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s .
The R i g h t Hon. The V i s c o u n t P e e l ,
G.B.E., S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e f o r
Indi a .
The R i g h t H o n . S i r L . W o r t h i n g t o n
E v a n s , B a r t . , M . P . , S e c r e t a r y of
S t a t e f o r War.
:
-
The R i g h t Hon. L o r d L e e o f
Fareham, G . B . E . , K . C . B . , F i r s t
of t h e A d m i r a l t y .
Lord
The R i g h t H o n . S . B a l d w i n , M.P.J
P r e s i d e n t of t h e B o a r d of T r a d e
The R i g h t Hon. S i r A . Mend,
Bart., M.P., Minister of Health.
The R i g h t H o n . H . A . L . F i s h e r , M . P . ,
P r e s i d e n t of t h e Board of E d u c a t i o n ,
The R i g h t Hon. S i r A . G r i f f i t h
Boscawen, M . P . , M i n i s t e r of
A g r i c u l t u r e and F i s h e r i e s .
The R i g h t Hon. T . J . M a c n a m a r a ,
M i n i s t e r of Laboiir.
The R i g h t Hon. R. M u n r o , K . C . ,
M.P., S e c r e t a r y f o r S c o t l a n d .
The R i g h t K e n . The E a r l o f C r a w f o r d
and B a l c a r r e s , K.T., F i r s t
C o m m i s s i o n e r , H.M. O f f i c e o f W o r k s .
Lt.Col. S i r M.P.A. Hankey,
Mr. Thomas J o n e s
Mr. R . B . H o w o r t h .
G.C.B
M.P.,
Secretary.
Principal Assistant Secretary
Assistant Secretary.
(1)
W i t h r e f e r e n c e t o C a b i n e t 29
the Cabinet
(28),. Conclusion 1 ,
a p p r o v e d t h e a n n o u n c e m e n t i n t h e House o f
Commons, t h e s a m e d a y o f t h e n a m e s o f S i r P h i l i p
Lloyd
G r e a s e a n d L i e u t e n a n t - C o n s n a n & e r H i l t o n Young a s t h e
Expert Representatives
which i s
on t h e I n t e r n a t i o n a l
Commission
t o m e e t a t t h e H a g u e on J u n e 1 5 t h , In
w i t h t h e r e c o m m e n d a t i o n s o f t h e Genoa
British
accordance
Conference,
Ifipk&H HRPA-
( 2 ) With r e f e r e n c e
the Cabinet
to C a b i n e t 89 ( S 3 ) , C o n c l u s i o n s
2-4,
a g r e e d w i t h t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r and t h e Lord.
Privy Seal that,
in view of the l a t e n t developments
regard to reparations
(via.,
according to Press
reports,
t h e a c c e p t a n c e b y Germany o f t h e p r o p o s a l s o f t h e
t i o n s C o m m i s s i o n ) , and i n v i e w o f an i n t i m a t i o n
in
flepara­
from
Donald M a c l e a n t h a t he d i d not w i s h to d i s c u s s t h e
Sir
question
o n t h e M o t i o n f o r t h e A d j o u r n m e n t o f t h e B o u s e o f Commons,'
i t was u n n e c e s s a r y t h a t t h e Prime M i n i s t e r should
o n t h e s u b j e c t o f German r e p a r a t i o n s a n d o u r
w i t h F r a n c e on t h e f o l l o w i n g
day.
Speak
relations
i l l
P
k g mim
feTUiflOl.
IS)
vmh
reference
t o Cabinet 27 ( E E ) , C o n c l u s i o n g ,
t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a l e £ 0 1 ? t h e c o l o n i e s a a & e a gfefeement o n
t i e $resent I r i s h s i £nation.
ago he was l o c k i n g forward
Ee a s i c l t h a t a y t o t e n d a y a
t o a f r e e E l e c t i o n wheia t h e
i s s u e o f t h e f r o s t y would l e p f c to t h e people..
common g r o u a S t o a l l p a r t i a l ,
including
I t was
that
$s^ffialatJ**
such
a n e l e c t i o n w o u l d h a v e r e s u l t e d l a 'm o v e s n h o l i a l a g m a j o r i t y ­
for
t h e Troo.fey*
i t
had he en r e a c h e d
t h e l a s t m o m e n t , h o w e v e r * east A g r e e m e n t
B e t w e e n
h e U a l e r e a&d C o l l i n s w h i c h
e d t h a t t h e e s i a U n g pvoportima
repreaeatitivea
June
l e t h ,
presorib
of T r e a t y and a n t i - T r e a t y
s h o u l d fee r e t u r n e e !
a t t h e Elections en
a n d i t s h o u l d h e f o l l o w e d b y a c o a l i t i o n C!evei?a*
s e n t 1b w h i c h w o u l d h e i n c l u d e d f o u r B e p u b l i e e a
Miaisters*
T h i s p a c t h a d b e e s , come t o h y a G e v e r m i e j i t f / h i c l i w a s
for
the Trealy;
i t was a s arrangement f a l l
p r e v e n t e d am e x p r e s s i o n
of.disaster%
o f o p i n i o n on t h e T r e a t y ;
t h e £ r e v i s i o n s ! \kmtmmimx%
mme&l-p
it
it
gave
n o f u r t h e y r e p r o s e n fea,ti v e o f
;
s t r e n g t h o r a u t h o r i t y -from t h e I r i s h p e o p l e 1 i t l e f t
the
G o v e r n m e n t i n , i t s p r e s e n t w e a k .&m h e l p l e s s p o s i t i o n ^
r u p t u r e d A r t i c l e XVII o f t h e T r e a t y .
had s e t l & a i s t a d ,
i s t h e i n t caries p a r l i a m e n t , on that
o a t h from t h e members,
h a t had l a i d
a d e c l a r a t i o n hy M i n i s t e r s .
intention
She B r i t i s h
It
mmn'S&mm
was h e l l w e d
it
Soverameat
ftieaatlag
an
t h e r e must he
to h e t h e i r
t o amice S o V & l o r a o n e o f t h e tmm s & i n i s t w e ,
and i f
h e and t h e t h r e e o t h e r s became M i n i s t e r s of t h e Government
the t r e a t y would he d e f i n i t e l y v i o l a t e d .
A% t h a t s t a g e
s t r o n g m e a s u r e s might become n e c e s s a r y , , such a s t h e
Ion of powers o r
o o o u T s a t i o f c
of S o u t h e r n
sotse
xommpfa
areas.
t h e r e a s o n s " g i v e n h y Mr G r i f f i t h a n d ! l r C o l l i n s - f o r a n
a c t l o u w h i c h c a u s e d g r e a t d i s m a y t o some o f t h e i r ow4 o f f i c e r s
was force measure.
There'could not have been, they s a i d , a
real lleotioa.
S m a l l h a n d s o f arnecfl m e n c o u l d
have s e i s e d and destroyed the b a l l o t
ways prevented the free
$eases, end i n
other
e x e r c i s e of c o n s t i t u t i o n a l
rights,
A s e e end and w e i g h t i e r r e a s o n which t h e y g a v e w a s t h e
state
of d i g e r d c r i n t h e c o u n t r y * w h i c h w o u l d h e a g g r a v a t e d h ^
as
Bieetiea*
Wn&tk Mr C o l l i n s ' w a s a s l c c d Tsfey h e d i d n o t a f f o r d
to the
B*Jl*c*
protection
Mid t h e S a t o n i e t s , h i s a n s w e r w a s t h a t h e
i n f a c t a f f o r d e a c h p r o t e c t i o n a n d p r e v e n t s tsaBy
Had t h e B l e s t i o n s f - r e e o e d e d ,
ices
outrages.
he s a i d , t h e Bepublieans
would
h a v e maddened England w i t h a s e r i e s o f o u t r a g e s .
Whereas
t h e r e "were f a n a t i c a l Mop&bXtemM
active
though v i o l e n t
wtte- m&e
I n metbcd, b e h i n d them had g a t h e r e d a l l
d e s p e r a t e e l e m e n t s of t h e p o p u l a t i o n ,
the
who p u r s u e d r a p i n e
f h e y c o u l d s e t h e d i s t i n g u i s h e d £worn t h e
private gain,
and o v e r a l l
pure i s
o f them w a s t h e g i s i a c u r
of t h e B e p u b l l o .
the egreement to proceed w i t h the E l e c t i o n ,
a n d Use
for
etherg
Hence
Prevision
a l Ssvernsaent which r e s u l t e d frcm i t would be e l e c t e d i n
a n e e w i t h t h e s t a t u t o r y term
was e q u a l l y
seadltj in
I t was a t
which we had r e q u i r e d ,
t h e T h i r d Hepufolioan S a i l ,
the e y e s of t h e
ten c l e a r
than June 6th, so a s t o give the
dsye i s which
l e s h&S e x a m i n e d , t h e d r a f t ,
S a c k S i g n a t o r y saw i t
conclusion,
to c o n s i d e r i t ,
etives
This was
She B r i t i s h
and i t had c a u s e d s e r i o u s
t o fee s o .
mtlj
and llr C o l l i n s t h a t
t h e i r c h e e r v a t i c n e upon i t .
the
dlsappeiSa
ease
I t was not
represent­
!%c I r i s h l e a d e r s
t h e y w o u l d mafce t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n c o n f o r m t o t h e
elect­
though they
Yesterday they gave the I r i s h
er i^ijfr
was
Signatory
s e p a r a t e l y and reached the
t h a t i t was a n e g a t i o n of the f r o s t y ,
w e r e a s s u r e d b y Mr G r i f f i t h
Intended
It
G o v e r n m e n t h a d a g r e e d s h o u l d soofe'.
pledge g i v e n to Ardfheis and M V a l e r a .
meat,
Its
the draft I r i s h eonstituMen
r e c e i v e d which the P r o v i s i o n a l
orate
But
Irish..
this stage that
be p u b l i s h e d n e t l a t e r
mad t h a t wm
aeoogdJ
said
Treaty.
j
$ h e r e waa n o t h i n g t o c o m p l a i n o f i n t h e i r
regard,
attitude in
$ h e p r a c t i c a l a t e p new b e i n g t a k e n w a s a d i e one a i o n
of the d r a f t by t h e Lord C h i e f J u s t i c e and t h e I r i s h
A d v i a e r , Mr Thigh K e n n e d y , K , 0 ,
see i f
this
Legal
They w e r e m e e t i n g t o d a y
to
t h e y could t o g e t h e r frame a C o n s t i t u t i o n which would
give fall
effect
to t h e t r e a t y ,
but t h e d i a t a n c e
between
t h e i r C o n s t i t u t i o n and t h e T r e a t y waa a l m o s t a s g r e a t
aa
When t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r b e g a n h i s n e g o t i a t i o n s w i t h Mr B e
Valera*
TBR LOW PRIVY smzthe reply
aa "a p r e t t y poor
said that
M* O o l l i n e h a d
described
document".
THE BVGVLV^Am OF STATR FOR TRT COLONIES, c o n t i n u i n g ,
t h a t t h e E l e c t i o n would t a k e p l a c e i n t h e middle of
It
would n o t be r i g h t
Juno,
to say t h a t i t would be w o r t h l e s s ,
-for some L a b o u r and I n d e p e n d e n t
c a n d i d a t e s might be
a n d Mr C o l l i n s h a d r e c e i v e d a s s u r a n c e s
that after
elected,
the.
F l e c t i o n s e m e o f De V a l e r a * s s u p p o r t e r s w o u l d c r o s s
over,
b e c a u s e t h e y w e r e c o n v i n c e d t h a t B n g l a n d waj3 l o y a l l y
out h e r p l e d g e s .
Government,
a later
The i d e a w a s t o t r y a n d g e t a
so a s t o s e c u r e t r a n t j u i l i t y
i n I r e l a n d , and
s t a g e a p r o p e r F l e c t i o n on t h e main i s s u e .
c o u l d he r e g a r d e d a s arming t h e P a r l i a m e n t
If
The
people
the four Republican M i n i s t e r s d i d not t a k e
f u g e which would conform to t h e ' l e t t e r
at
to c a r r y out
o a t h , i t was p o s s i b l e t h e r e might be a r e s o r t
t o some
the
the
snbter­
of t h e T r e a t y and
n o t i n v o l v e t h e R e p u b l i c a n s -in a s e r i o u s d e p a r t u r e
their
carrying
non-Party
J u n e F l e c t i o n would not be one i n which t h e I r i s h
Treaty,
said
yet
from
principles.
The C o n s t i t u t i o n h a d t o b e p a s s e d t h r o u g h t h i s
Parliament.
I f an a g r e e m e n t w a s r e a c h e d on t h e
Constitution
i t would b e o d i o u s t o t h e R e p u b l i c and members o f t h e
and an e n d l e s s d i s c u s s i o n would f o l l o w .
June
J)ail,
Had t h e r e b e e n a
Parliament with a big pro-Treaty majority
%
the
Constitution
could probably have been q u i c k l y pushed through*
agreed on a C o n s t i t u t i o n i t
d i d not a g r e e ,
If
would be p u b l i s h e d ?
if
t h e n he supposed t h e I r i s h would
they
they
still
p u b l i s h t h e i r s a m we s h o u l d h a v e t o d e n o u n c e i t .
He h a r d l y
knew w h a t w o u l d t h e n h a p p e n .
During t h e s e i n c o n c l u s i v e
e u s o i o n s we m i g h t f i n d
(l)
country continuing:
anarchy,
if
so, i t
the d e t e r i o r a t i o n of
would s l i d e i n t o
eonficca­
and a l a r g e r s t r e a m o f r e f u g e e s :
they i s o l a t e d b r i g a n d a g e ,
t h e r e might be a
g a i n which might enable us to pass to a q u i e t e r
without t r a g i c occurrences *
the
complete
w i t h more m u r d e r s of P r o t e s t a n t s , more
t i o n of property,
(s?
if
either
dis­
or
social
period
I
Mr C h u r c h i l l t h e n t u r n e d t o t h e p o s i t i o n i n
The two G o v e r n m e n t s w e r e f u r t h e r
than ever,
apart
m d each hlamed t h e o t h e r .
from e a c h
other
S i r J&bos
Oraig
in
t h e a g r e e m e n t , b e t w e e n C r a i g a n d C o l l i n s on t h e .
3 1 s t March,, a n d C o l l i n s a d m i t t e d t h i s .
t h e b o y c o t t a n d o t h e r m e a s u r e s of
h a l f a- dozen^m
Since the breach
t h e I . R . A , h a d become
Whether i t was a e a s e of s i s Jp"*one and
more e f f e c t i v e .
the
o t h e r , he d i d not know.
He w o u l d b e
s o r r y t o t r y and a r r i v e a t any o t h e r r a t i o .
was i n a dangerous si t u a t i o n ,
Belfast
The b o r d e r
and m a t t e r s were worse
than they had been.
Sstibtafe U l s t e r , ,
We h a d 1 9 B a t t a l i o n s
in
in
and y e s t e r d a y some a r t i l l e r y w a s s e n t
In addition there were 4 8 , 0 0 0
W
A
W
*B" and * 0
N
f o r arms and m u n i t i o n s t o e q u i p
" I am b o u n d t o s a y t h a t
having
and
request
these..
Mr C h u r c h i l l h e r e c o n t i n u e d a s
f
over.
Specials,
o r d e r s had been given to accede to S i r James 0 r a i g * s
'
l
Ulster.
b l a m e d t h e s u p p o r t e r s of B e V a l e r a who h a d s u c c e e d e d
upsetting
l
follows:­
X t h i n k w e c o u l d do no
less,
r e g a r d t o t h e g a t h e r i n g of t h e f o r c e s from t h e
South and t h e f e r o c i o u s
steps used against Ulster.
The
c o n t i n u a n c e o f d i s o r d e r o f a s e r i o u s k i n d i n B i s t e r may­
b e l o o k e d f o r a n d a t a n y moment p a t i e n c e n a y fee r u p t u r e d
and we s h a l l f i n d
*see r e d ' .
o u r s e l v e s i n an atmosphere where
M i n i s t e r s should read the I r i s h papers,
t h e "Freeman".
such
as
These p a p e r s , p u b l i s h e d - i n Dublin — and
they a r e pro-Treaty papers Catholics
people
describe only the murders of
and a t t r i b u t e t h e s e h o r r o r s to S i r James
Government a n d t h e Orangemen,
Craig*a
Every o u t r a g e on one
i s r e p l i e d t o b y a n o u t r a g e on t h e o t h e r I n a
side
crescendo
o f c o n f l i c t , w h i e h may b r i n g a b o u t a n e x p l o s i o n w h i c h may
put an end t o o u r watching
the laboured processes
(connected
with the Constitution) ** .
Thes?e w e r e t h u s , s a i d Mr C h u r c h i l l ,
(1)
t h r e e main
factors:­
The C o n s t i t u t i o n a d j u s t e d t o o u r v i e w m i g h t p r o v e
i n s u p e r a b l e t o them when t h e y r e t u r n t o I r e l a n d J
-7­
(2)
Disorder i n the
Bmitlij
(5)
The s i t u a t i o n i n U l s t e r *
The P r i m M i n i s t e r i n t e r j e c t e d t h a t I f t h e y m a d e
t h e i r C o n s t i t u t i o n c o n f o r m t o o u r v i e w Do V a l e r a
n o t be a b l e t o a c c e p t
On t h e o t h e r h a n d i f
would
i t and t h e p a c t would be broken.
t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n w e r e n o t made
conform t o t h e T r e a t y then we should be
to
confronted
w i t h a l a r g e r i s s u e of the R e p u b l i c v e r s u s t h e Empire *
!fr* C h u r c h ! 1 1 ^ i n r e p l y t o q u e s t i o n s
had been endless c o n f l i c t
i n regard to the
C r a i g a g r e e m e n t o f £"arch 3 1 s t *
o t h e r on s m a l l p o i n t s *
groat effort
said
there
Collins-
Both had r e s i s t e d
each
S i r J a m e s C r a i g had made a
to h e l p , but a f t e r
-the B e V a l e r a - O o l l i n s
p a c t he h a d gone o v e r t o this o t h e r s i d e .
Cr&ig h a d been w i l l i n g
f
to go great
Sir
James
l e n g t h s and
while
he c o u l d not s t a n d f o r u n i t y lie would r e s i g n
t h a n stand, i n i t s w a y .
rather
Had C o l l i n s t a k e n s t r o n g
a n d t u r n e d gtaie I r r e g u l a r s
out of t h e i r B u h l i n
steps
strong­
h o l d s t h e whole s i t u a t i o n i n B e l f a s t would h a v e
improved, but having
j o i n e d hands w i t h avowed R e p u b l i c a n s
we c o u l d l a r d l y wonder- t h a t t h e f o r t h h a d g o n e b a c k
to i t s
extreme and v i o l e n t
position.
h a v e t o g i v e thorn a s s u r a n c e s o f
" I t h i n k we
help.."
The C h a n c e l l o r of t h e F s c l i e q u e r a s k e d w h e t h e r
c o n v e r s a t i o n s between t h e Prime M i n i s t e r and
L o r d P r i v y S e a l w i t h Mr, G r i f f i t h
and Kr.
t h a t morning t h r e w a n y l i g h t on t h e
the
Collins
situation.
the
THE PRIME B i n i S T E R .
ah interview
"Mr. C h a m b e r l a i n a n d I
l a s t i n g l i hours with Mr. G r i f f i t h
Mp. O o l l i n s *
end
I t b o r e otit" ! l r * C h i i r c h i l X s a c c o u n t
They a r e mere anseious about t h e
Beat than about anything a l s o *
They t a l k e d of
extermination of the C a t h o l i c s .
waa a g r e a t e x a g g e r a t i o n ,
80 Catholics
It
that
1921.
Justify
J u s t happens t h a t
P r a t e s l a u f c a Tame b e a n k i l l e d a n d c o n s i d e r a b l e
else,
the
have.been
They a r e c o n s i d e r a b l e f i g u r e s ' , b u t t h e y do n e b
Sb% C o l l i n a d e s c r i p t i o n s
North-
I retorted that
end 1 6 8 wounded s i n c e December 6 t h ,
wounded.
of
8
the situation.
killed,
had
aasabora
We c o u l d g e t M r . C o l l i n a t o t a l k o f
a n d when we w e r e a t l a s t a b l e t o p o i n t
72
nothing
out'that
t h e r e h a d been 8 7 murders i n t h e Souths ho r e p l i e d
t h i s was due t o t h e e x c i t e d s t a t e
of f e e l i n g
provoked
b y B e l f a s t , a n d t h a t u n l e s s s o m e t h i n g were dona
him Lord Randolph C h u r c h i l l a r e m a r k t o Mr.
1
iToa o a l l y o u r s e l v e s a G o v e r n m o n t
flnel
aA/i&A
*W*l*
Viawa
Ircm&turt
/teri&w
t
*****
8
to
Gladstone,
whom do y o u g o v e r n ? *'
flmfavnmam
t o en Englishman, t o E r s k l n e C h l l d e r a * .
anawer waa
the
1 quoted
w h o l e o f I r e l a n d w o u l d g e t o u t o f han&*
f
that
*-.
TMnlnwl
Their
general
Y o u m u s t l e t u s g o v e r n i n o u r own w a y .
s o l u t i o n w i l l depend, on t h e m a i n t a n a n e e of good
We w i l l g e t I r e l a n d r i g h t ' . '
t h a t we w e r e p a y i n g f o r
T h e y w e n t on,"to
the p o l i c e
in Ulster,
The
feeling,.
argue
and,'
t h e r e f o r e , we h a d t h e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y t h e r e .
They
a l l e g e d t h a t the murders were committed by
"specials"
i n our pay,
. T h e y u r g e d t h a t we h a d b a n d e d l a w
order over t o S i r
therefore rested
James G r a i g , and t h e
with.us*
and
responsibility,
us *
They r e c a l l e d
great Britain,
e a s e s of i n v e s t i g a t i o n i n I r e l a n d
ana s u g g e s t e d an i m p a r t i a l e n q u i r y .
a s k e d , w h y d i d we n o t l e t
proclaim martial
law,
British officers.
but
It lea
British
by
They
troops take charge
ant
T h e r e w o u l d he g r e a t c o n f i d e n c e
T h i s was a most e x t r a o r d i n a r y
one t o w h i c h M r ,
in
suggestion,
G r i f f i t h , came h a c k r e p e a t e d l y . *
MB. CHURCHILL p o i n t e d o u t t h a t t h e n o r t h e r n a o v e r n ­
ment were a g a i n s t m a r t i a l
law*
THE PRIME M1BISTER s a i d
f a s t an
the 4 8 , 0 0 0 " s p e e i a l s " were
army,
THE SEQH3TARY OP STATS FOB WAS p o i n t e d
were not lunler m i l i t a r y
i n c r e a s e of
cost,
but s i r
useful
out t h a t
s a i d he h a d o p p o s e d
t h e " s p e c i a l s " on t h e g r o u n d o f t h e i r
than the ordinary. a m y .
t h a t o r d i n a r y p o l i c e m a n w e r e t r a i n e d men w h e r e a s t h e
out
"specials"
not,
ME. CHMBSBLAXSt
and
great
James O r a i g had m a i n t a i n e d t h a t t h e y were more
THE PRIMS Mill I S TEE s a i d M r , G r i f f i t h h a d p o i n t e d
were
they
discipline,
THE CHAHCELLOB OP THE
the
in
aim t h e
""Mr, G r i f f t h s a i d
a more e x a o t a n a l o g y .
"The f a s c i s t l
I n I t a l y would be
The s i t u a t i o n d i d s e e m to p o i n t
impartial i n v e s t i g a t i o n into, the
ME- CHURCHILL s a i d
recognised our r i g h t
t h a t S i r James O r a i g had
to i n v e s t i g a t e
we w e r e m a i n t a i n i n g
an army of about
MB, CHURCHILL s a i d
to
facts,"
a s much a s we
THE PRIME MINISTER s a i d we c e r t a i n l y h a d t h e
repeatedly
liked.
right
as
57,000.
t h a t Mr, C o l l i n s had a s s e r t e d
t h e m u r d e r e r s i n t h e Uorth were known, and S i r
asked for
go
East End,""
THE PRIME M I I I 8 T S B ;
the need f o r
"you might as w e l l
the n a t a e s , b u t n o n e h a d b e e n
that
James C r a i g
forthcoming,
had
Waa Prime Minister said t h e most significant feature of
the interview was t h a t
two or three times Mr, Collins had
indicated t h a t he w a s willing " t o give Ireland hack" to as
"as a present,"
The lord Privy Seal s a i d that the Initiative for the
interview had come f r o m t h e Irish leaders, and it w a s
ohvious t h a t
they were eager
f o r it.
T h e y h a d raised
the
question of Ulster at once, a n d t h e tone of the interview
throughout h a $ b e e n
character - not t h a t
of great gravity a n d of a menacing
the language
used w a s menacing, but
that t h e nature of t h e discussion w a s so serious as to too
menacing,
They alleged that t h e murders in Belfast were
part of a deliberate warfare on Catholics, a n d t h e y had
remarked to the Prime Minister t h a t h e
(the Prime Minister)
and De Valera should share the government of Ireland between
them, as much as to say that "ono was as impossible as the
The Lord Privy S e a l ,
other."
continuing, s a i d h e had put
the following question to Mr. Collins:
"Supposing we were to
give you this Investigation, would you he prepared to disavow
the I.E,A, in t h e Sis Counties, t o t e l l
them a n d all persons
affiliated to them there that they were bound to obey the
northern Government pending the results of the Boundary Com­
mission?"
His reply w a s t h a t he w a s prepared to carry out the
agreement of March 31st hut that h e w a s not prepared to hold
up the hands of the Ulster Government while Catholics were
being murdered.
M r . Collins had then handed him a dossier wit]
particulars of the murders in Ulster.
THE SEC PS TAP Y OP STATE PGR WAR suggested that Mr. Collins'
answer indicated that he was behind the 2g- Divisions of the
I,E,A.
who were
causing so much trouble in the North.
The Lord Privy Seal said he did not think his reply
amounted to a confession that he encouraged the I.R.A.
but It did mean that he would not openly discourage them.
THE BJIKS MXSXSfBSlt "H$ sayo* t eim*t i o a w t h e s e p e o p l e
m
unprotected with 48 000 S p e c i a l s out a g a i n s t
thos%"
t
SftKHFARr Of StATK FOR M
C0L0HIE8 s e . l d t h e
were er^e&votiring to u p s e t t h e u l s t e r
I.R*A.
Ceverment,
THE Lcn\l5 PBXVY SRflliS " ^ i i e y a r e i n r e b e l l i o n a g a i n s t
Qovermmnt
w h i c h i e a p a r t of' t h e
Treaty."
THE SB)BE'?AEY OF STATE ECS THE OOlOtmSS' S a i d t h a t
t h e A g r e e r e n t o f Marsh S l o t C o l l i n s had g i v e n up
w h e r e a s O r a i g h a d u n d e r t a k e n to
s e t up d u a l
police,
a
in
nothing
revise 170'sentences,
to
and a C a t h o l i c I n v e s t i g a t i o n CoKSidttee.
o f tlfs? $$p&mmrik t e r e
to the Cabinet.)"
C Copies
handed
M%% hinds of d i f f i c u l t i e s had. been pit in the w a y of the
e x e c u t i o n o f the
Agreement.
THE
3flKW3f
no
M i n i s t e r h&A/jy&mi a b l e
s a M the
e y & y c a s e h e a n d the
t o a r g u e i n d e t a i l w a s why
Agreement h a d n e t boon h e p t .
Tiioy h a d l a i d
dttrino- t h e d i s c u s s i o n o n t h e f a c t
rebellion against
the Ulster
that
2rlmo
the
t h e 12ain s t r e s s
the
was
Soverment.
$COS; F I B S ? COa&XSSIQtflER OF WOUTCS p o i n t e d o u t t h a t
o n l y way f o r t h e iTls&er Oovorntasnt t o B ^ i n t a i n i t s
would he to c r o s s i t .
that
detail
OF
STATB FOB $HB G0L0SSXES d e s c r i b e d i n a o i s e
t h e s a i l i t & r y s i t u a t i o n w h i c h -would t h e m
OF REAh'H-1 p o i n t e d o u t i f
SECRETARY OF S-fgBS FOR WM*
s a i d i t w o u l d n o t bo e a s y
border i n d i c a t e d by
TO
frontier
What w o u l d bo t h e s i t u a t i o n w h e n
c i v i l w a r t h i s ecntntry would j o i n
fm
the
happened?
smiim,^
WB
in
arise.
t h e r e was t o
in.
i n reply to a
quc3Stion*
f o r o u r t r o o p s , b o t h t o lio33t
Ohurefcill end to p o l i c e
partly
a d m i n i s t r a t i v e and
J u d i c i a l i n e h a r & c t o r , wouM be
valuable.
-IS­
the
Belfast,
JfimSTER CF BSDUOAHOH t h o u g h t a n E n q u i r y i n t o
outrages i n Belfast,
be
partly
the
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOB'THE OOLOGIES p o i n t e d o u t
t h e temper in
this
c o u n t r y was h i g h and r i s i n g ,
and
that
the
Government w o u l d be t o l d t h a t t h e y h a d b e e n c h e a t e d b y
the
S o u t h , and t h a t - when l o y a l U l s t ermen d e f e n d e d
themselves
we p r o p o s e d an E n q u i r y .
"$hat
The p u b l i c w o u l d a s h ,
about
a n E n q u i r y i n t o t h e S o u t h ? w h e r e t h e r e w a s no. p r o v o c a t i o n ,
w h e r e a s t h e C a t h o l i c s i n t h e I S o r t h w e r e a p a r t of a movement
to
s h a t t e r t h e Morthern Government.
S i r James C r a i g
f o u r men u n d e r s e n t e n c e o f f l o g g i n g ;
p e r s o n bad been brought t o
k
had
i n t h e South not one .
justice.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF HE GCUKCI1. t h o u g h t i t w o u l d n o t do
rri
t o h a v e cn E n q u i r y i n t h e W o r t h w i t h o u t o n e a l e c i n t h e
South.
THE PRIME MINISTER p o i n t e d o u t t h a t o n e w a s a D o m i n i o n
and t h e o t h e r was n o t .
ial
responsibility
taining
I n t h e N o r t h we h a d a c c e p t e d
for law and o r d e r .
The b u r d e n o f
the P o l i c e was almost e x c l u s i v e l y
had a s p e c i a l
responsibility.
finane­
main­
c a r s , a n d wo t h u s
He w a s p r o f o u n d l y
concerned
w i t h t h e p u b l i c p r e s e n t a t i o n o f t h e t r o u b l e when i t
came.
He w a s , n o t s u r e t h a t C o l l i n s w a s n o t m a n o e u v r i n g u s
into
p o s i t i o n whore our c a s e was w e a k .
Ulster*
The f i r s t
i n the main,
He h a d c h a l l e n g e d u s o n
murders were the murders of C a t h o l i c s ,
t h e m u r d e r of m e m b e r s o f t h e m i n o r i t y .
h a d b e e n p u n i s h e d , we h a d made no e n q u i r y ,
48,000 Protestants.
we h a d
I t would be a bad c a s e .
w o u l d b e t o an E m p i r e w h i c h was
Protestant
and nobody had b e e n p u n i s h e d o r a r r e s t e d .
ness to maintain a s t e r n i m p a r t i a l i t y
We w e r e n o t a P r o t e s t a n t , o r
a s some t r i e d t o m a k e u s b e l i e v e ,
to c a r r y
Mo-one
armed
Catholic
murdered
I t was o u r b u s i ­
between a l l r a c e s
a Catholic,
or
even,
I t was v e r y
Import­
t h e Dominions w i t h u s , t o c a r r y America and
carry the outside world.
and
a Mohammedan E m p i r e .
We w e r e bound t o b e s t e r n l y i m p a r t i a l .
ant
­
Our a p p e a l
and
There had been 80 C a t h o l i c s and 49 P r o t e s t a n t s
creeds.
a
to
We s h o u l d n o t h a v e a b r e a c h w h e r e
a greet
e a s e c o u l d b e made a g a i n s t u s .
I f we b r a k e e n
the
i s s u e o f " S e p u b l i e v e r s u s M o n a r c h y " we c o u l d c o u n t ; on
support;
b u t i f w e b r o k e on U l s t e r w e s h o u l d g e t i n t o t h e earns
atmosphere ef doubtful
ala*
solid
responsibility
aa in the ease of
lie warned the -Cabinet s o l e m n l y t h a t
Hepris­
there would be a
of a p p r o v a l tomorrow I f immediate a c t i o n w a r e t a k e n , b u t
the shoutera
hence;
that
t h e m s e l v e s would g i v e t h e most t r o u b l e t h r e e months
t h e i r t e n a c i t y would eoae e a t , and they weald
criticise
shout
turn- t o
t h e G o v e r n m e n t s methods and c h a r g e them w i t h
too g e n t l e h e r e or b l u n d e r i n g
would be a g a i n s t
them,
there.
SB&S r e l i g i o u s
being
eonramitiea
£emocratie sommnnities were
sentimental
c o m m u n i t i e s , a n d t h a t w a s why a p o l i c y e f r e p r e s s i o n c o u l d
be c a r r i e d
through.
net
m.m
He s t r o n g l y u r g e d t h a t t h e y s h o u l d t a k e
s t e p s a s would e l i m i n a t e
the Ulster
i s s u e end l e a v e a c l e a n
issue
of "Bepufelie v e r s u s B r i t i s h Shapiro".
Whoever t o o k t h e $eh o n , .
h o w e v e r m u c h t h e s h o u t i n g m i g h t fee f o r
the f i r s t
find
the shout ere turn a g a i n s t
Judicial Inquiry..
object.
theat.
few w e e k s ,
S e waa I n f a v o u r e f
He d i d n o t s e e why S i r J a m e s C r a i g
They had t o f i n d
t h e m w i t h a' demand f o r
000,000 -
and they might
the o u t r a g e s and g i v e
time for
SHB SJ20BBTJBY OK &U:£E MB
should
a very considerable
evidence,
t h u s oe a b l e f o r a t i m e t e
the o t h e r i s s u e to
develop.
if AS a s k e d t h e P r i m e M i n i s t e r i f
that
they might c e r t a i n l y
THE SEOBETASY Oi!' STATE I'0B THE 0 0 I 0 B I E S s a i d t h a t
to be a e o n ,
t e Bngland t h a t
atop
he
troops
border?
THS .rBIME M I S I S r S a r e p l i e d
c r a i g aught
to
seat,
w o u l d - b e i n f a v o u r e f a s k i n g C o l l i n s t o a l l o w them t o p u t
on b o t h a i d e s e f t h e
a
t h e money, a n d S i r J a m e s C r a i g came
D u r i n g t h e SncfUiry n e i t h e r S i d e w o u l d c a r e t e c r e a t e
against Itself,
would
evening.
Sir
do s o .
3&tma
and t h a t h e proposed t o a s k him to
ceme
THE PRTMR &XHISTER t h o u g h t t h e i n v i t a t i o n s h o u l d b e
accompanied by an a s s u r a n c e t h a t
support his
efforts
to maintain
t h e Government w o u l d
order.
TUB LORD CHANCELLOR s u g g e s t e d t h a t a S c o t t i s h
Judge'
might be s e l e c t e d ,
TKE HUMS JOTXSTER s a i d t h e r e S h o u l d b e a C a t h o l i c
Protestant
ant\a
Judge.
TEE SECRETARY CD STATE FOR THE GOLOHIKS s t a t e d t h a t
James C r a i g might argue that
t h i s was p u t t i n g a s t i g m a
t h e N o r t h e r n G o v e r n m e n t a n d u p o n t h e i r own J u d g e s *
would be a d i f f i c u l t
Sir
on
It
c a s e t o d e f e n d i n t h e h o u s e o f Coramono,
and p r e s s u r e would be put f o r a s i m i l a r Enquiry In the
South.
TEE PRIME MINISTER s a i d t h a t i n t h e S o u t h t h e r e w a s no ­
d i s p u t e about the r e s p o n s i b i l i t y ;
i t was t h e X,R,A.
There
was nothing to I n v e s t i g a t e .
In such a n i n q u i r y a s he p r o ­
p o s e d we s h o u l d be f o l l o w i n g
a p r e c e d e n t l a i d down b y L o r d
B a l f o u r a n d L o r d W i o r l e y , who b a d i n s t i t u t e d E n q u i r i e s
h a d g i v e n complete s a t i s f a c t i o n on t h e ground of
THE,LORD PBESID^KT OP WE 00OHCIL s a i d
careful
which
impartiality.
t h e y s h o u l d be
n o t t o p u t U l s t e r i n t h e dock and c a l l t h e S o u t h a s
a witness,
The s t a t e o f t h i n g s i n t h e S o u t h w a s b a d ,
and
refugees were spreading a l l over the country,
tie w a s
an i n q u i r y
should be so
i n t h e N o r t h , but t h e s c e n i c e f f e c t
a r r a n g e d as not to put U l s t e r a l o n e i n the
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL p o i n t e d o u t t h a t ,
wrong,
on t h e o t h e r h a n d ,
t h e s t r e n g t h o f the e a s e for a n Enquiry was t h a t
Constables were d e f i n i t e l y
they were i n our
pay.
against
the
c h a r g e d w i t h m u r d e r and
Special
that
9EBS BBXME MIHIdTBB e & i d h e w o u l d h a v e a s e n q u i r y i n t o
the
disturbances i n the Ilorib,
QcmnriMiat
MB. CHURCHILL a & i d t h a t i t w a s a l l e g e d b y t h e n o r t h e r n
t h a t C a t h o l i c s f r i e n d l y , t o t h a t G o v e r n m e n t w e r e m u r d e r e d fey o t h e r
Catholics.
;Phe w h o l e of U l s t e r h a d b e e n k n i t
between M
V a l o r s and C o l l i n s .
would b e out of r e l a t i o n
The a r r i v a l
tegetbor by the
of m J u d i c i a l
t o w h a t w o u l d b e g o i n g on a l l
a n d ho d i d n o t t h i n k a n y e f f e c t i v e
reached.
Another s u g g e s t i o n would b e to take a p a r t i c u l a r a r e a of
MlBl&sm:
THIS miUE
"And t h e B o r d e r
I
in Belfast*
Belfast
Governor,
toot"
ME CHUBCHILL: " Y e n h a v e n o t e n o u g h t r o o p s f o r t h a t ,
trouble starts
Sm-auiry
around,
e e n e l m s i e a s would he
a n d p l a c e i t u n d e r s t r i c t H a r t i a l Law n n a e r a B r i t i s h
She Border
You c o u l d t a k e a s q n a r e m i l e o f
t h i n k t h e S a t f c o l i e s would be r e l i e v e d a n t S i r James earsig
b e i n d u c e d to a g r e e
possible
to t h i s ;
or,
pact
i n l b s second place i t
Belfast
&$0&
s l i g h t he
t o g o b a c k t o t h e Agreement o f t h e $ 1 s t March which, h a s
not been torn u p . "
(At t h i s p o i n t
t h e r e was a d i s c u s s i o n on the m i l i t a r y
ions contemplated In c e r t a i n
emergencies*)
LOBJD BALFDUB t h o u g h t t h a t b o t h t h e B e l f a s t
ought to be d e a l t
dlspoolt­
a r e a and the
Border
with.,
WklM BXBkSUHJI&B p o i n t e d o u t t h a t t o d e a l w i t h t h e l a t t e r
involve a rupture with
MB ^ISHBB s u g g e s t e d
might
t h e 3ou t h o r n Government *
that
the U l s t e r B a t t a l i o n s
eu^at
to b e
s t r o n g e r a n d s a i d t h a t afc w a s a l l f o r p r o c l a i m i n g M a r t i a l Lew i n
Belfast,
After
some f u r t h e r
discussion as to the d i f f i c u l t i e s
which had
boon e x p e r i e n c e d i n c a r r y i n g c u t t b c p r e v i s i o n s of t h e Agreement
March 3 1 s t ,
(I)
of
the Cabinet agreed; ­
That S i r J a m e s C r a i g s h o u l d be i n v i t e d b y t h e S e c r e t a r y
of S t a t e f o r t h e C o l o n i e s t o c r o s s t o L o n d o n t h a t n i g h t s
*1S­
That the Prime Minister should put to
Sir J a m e s Craig the proposal for a
Judicial enquiry into the disturbances
in Ulster.
17
p
kvvnm&m
I S TIUS
msSE OH THE
(4)
THE HXBX&I2ER OF LABOUR c a l l e d a t t e n t i o n t o
the
(iRISH SITUATION,
d e b a t e on I r e l a n d w h i c h w a s t o t a k e p l a c e before
the
a d j o u r n m e n t on t h e f o l l o w i n g d a y and t h e
felt
on t h e q u e s t i o n o f f o u r r e p u b l i c a n
apprehension
Ministers
f o r m i n g p a r t o f a C o a l i t i o n Government r e c o g n i s e d
by
us,
EE. CHURCHILL s a i d t h a t
proposed to say
tolerate
in h i s statement
quite definitely
t h a t we w o u l d
t h e p r e s e n c e of M i n i s t e r s who d i d n o t
t h e D e c l a r a t i o n r e q u i r e d by t h e T r e a t y ,
to confront
t h e House w i t h t h e w o r s t
w e r e come t o .
Ulster
support
with it
, used.
make
the
differences
w h i c h h a d a r i s e n on t h e q u e s t i o n of t h e
Those would a p p e a r w i t h i n a few d a y s i f
not
He p r o p o s e d
s i d e of
p o s i t i o n but he would not i n d i c a t e t h e
he
Constitution.
no
agreement
He p r o p o s e d t o s a y t h a t w e w e r e
i n s h i p s and a n a s and t h a t
the responsibility
giving
that
f o r s e e i n g how t h e y
earrled
were
He w e u l d e x p l a i n t o t h e H o u s e t h e d e f e n c e
put
u j * o n b e h a l f o f the- B e V a l e r a * C o l l i n s p a c t a n d w o u l d
.
show t h e v i c e o f t h e
THIS
mim
Agreement,
mmsnm.
s a i d he thought every
effort
s h o u l d b e made not t o c r e a t e t h e i m p r e s s i o n t h a t
the
trouble was in U l s t e r ,
We c o u l d n o t c a r r y o n a w a r
with a divided country,
Ho q u e s t i o n o f
legislation
b y u s x?ould a r i s e o n t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n u n t i l
been adopted i n
Ireland,
it
had
(5)
W i t h r e f e r e n c e t o Cabinet 89 ( 3 8 ) , C o n c l u s i o n 5
t h e C a b i n e t had under c o n s i d e r a t i o n a Draft Despatch
t o Lord H a r d i n g a ( P a p e r O . P . 3993) c i r c u l a t e d b y t h e
S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r F o r e i g n A f f a i r e , -and a *Iote
t h e r e o n b y t h e S e c r e t a r y o f S t a t e f o r Wai* ( P a p e r
C*P* ­ 4 0 0 0 ) .
was c i r c u l a t i n g
They w e r e i n f o r m e d t h a t Lord
a n amended
Balfour
drafts
The Cabinet a g r e e d ; That t h e t w w s of the Despatch t e be
s e n t t o t h e F r e n c h Government s h o u l d
be l e f t t o t h e d i s c r e t i o n of Lo^d B a l f c t i r
(6)
The CaMnet took n o t e of t h e f o l l o w i n g Gonclusiona
of C o m ! t t e e of Hc-iae A f f a i r s R o . l X l , h e l d ' on May 9 t h , X 9 2 2 ,
at
4.15
p*n*i­
- (1)
(2)
(?*)
(4)
(5)
­
, S a l e of Tea B i l l
Supply of Bread and F l o u r B l l i *
P l a c e s of Worship (Enfranohlaeraent)
Amendment 8 1 1 1 * '
Guardianship of I n f a n t s B i l l ,
C e l l u l o i d and Cinemato:n^aph Film B i l l ,
(Appendix)
8,
Whitehall
Gardens,
May S O t h , 3.9S22.
s,w*l*
[This Document is the Property of His Britannic Majestys Government.j
Printed
for the Cabinet.
May 1 9 2 2 .
SECRET.
(H.A.C. 111th Conclusions.)
CABINET.
COMMITTEE
OF
HOME
AFFAIRS.
111.
Conclusions of a Meeting of the above Committee held in the Ministers''
Conference
Room, House of Commons, S.W., on Tuesday, May 9, 1 9 2 2 , at 4*15 P.M.
Present :
The R i g h t Hon. H. A . L . FISHER, M . P . , President o f t h e Board of Education
(in the
The R i g h t
Hon. E . SHORTT, K . C . , M . P . ,
S e c r e t a r y of S t a t e for Home Affairs.
The R i g h t Hon. S i r ALFRED MOND, B a r t . ,
M.P., Minister of H e a l t h .
The R i g h t
Hon. R. MTJNRO, K . C . , M . P . ,
S e c r e t a r y for Scotland.
Chair).
The
Right
Hon.
S.
BALDWIN,
M.P.*
P r e s i d e n t of t h e Board of Trade.
The
Right
Hon.
Sir
A.
GRIEEITH-BOS-
OAWEN, M . P . , Minister of A g r i c u l t u r e
and Fisheries.
The
Right
Hon.
Sir
E.
M.
POLLOCK,
K.B.E., K . C . , M.P., Attorney-General.
S i r LESLIE SCOTT, K . C . , M . P . , S o l i c i t o r - G e n e r a l .
The following w e r e also present
Sir
WILLIAM
MITCHELL-THOMSON,
Bart.,
K.B.E., M . P . , Parliamentary Secretary,
Board of Trade.
(For Conclusions
1 a n d 2.)
S i r M . DELEVINTGNE, K . C . B . , Home Office,
i i o r c o n c l u s i o n o.)
Mr. A . MAXWELL, P r i v a t e
Secretary,
Home Office.
(For Conclusion 5.)
Mr. R. B . HOWORTH, Acting
Mr. T. S T . QUINTIN HILL,
Sale of Tea Bill.
S i r A . V . SYMONDS, K . C . B., M i n i s t r y of
Health.
( F o r Conclusions 1 and 2.)
The
H o n . HUGH. GODLEY, Third
Parlia­
m e n t a r y Counsel.
Mr. F. H. COLLEK, C.B., Food D e p a r t ment, B o a r d of Trade. ( F o r Conclusions
1 a n d 2.)
Secretary
to the
Committee.
Principal.
1. W i t h reference to H.A.C: 9 9 , Conclusion 3, t h e Committee
had before t h e m a M e m o r a n d u m ( C P . 3 9 1 1 ) by t h e P r e s i d e n t of
the Board of T r a d e , c o v e r i n g a draft B i l l r e l a t i n g to t h e sale of tea.
It w a s explained to the Committee that this B i l l h a d been
p r e p a r e d t o i m p l e m e n t a p l e d g e b y t h e G o v e r n m e n t t h a t legislation
would be i n t r o d u c e d to m a k e p e r m a n e n t t h e p r o v i s i o n s of t h e Sale
of F o o d O r d e r (made u n d e r t h e M i n i s t r y of Food C o n t i n u a n c e A c t )
r e l a t i n g to t h e sale of tea b y n e t w e i g h t . T h e B i l l accordingly
p r o v i d e d for t h e r e t a i l sale of tea b y n e t w e i g h t i n ounces o r
pounds, or i n m u l t i p l e s of ounces o r pounds. T h i s r e q u i r e m e n t
would be a protection t o t h e consumer, w a s s u p p o r t e d by r e p r e ­
sentatives of t h e Co-operative m o v e m e n t a n d of labour, a n d w a s
l i k e l y to r a i s e little, if a n y , opposition i n P a r l i a m e n t .
[8375]
The Solicitor-General
r e f e r r e d to ancient legislation r e g a r d i n g
t h e sale of tea, and expressed the opinion that so far as possible it
w a s desirable in any new Bill to codify existing legislation.
He
proposed to c o m m u n i c a t e to the d r a f t s m a n a note on t h e subject.
The Committee agreed —
(1.) To take note of t h e opinion expressed by the SolicitorGeneral that w h e n Bills
were b e i n g drafted t h e
opportunity
should
be taken
to codify
existing
legislation.
(2.) T o a p p r o v e , subject to t h e consent of t h e G o v e r n m e n t
W h i p s , the i n t r o d u c t i o n into P a r l i a m e n t of the S a l e of
Tea Bill.
Supply of Bread
and Flour Bill.
2. W i t h reference to H.A.G. 9 9 , Conclusion 3, the Committee
h a d before t h e m two Memoranda by the P r e s i d e n t of the B o a r d of
T r a d e ( C P . 3 9 1 1 and C P . 3 9 5 7 ) , the former c o v e r i n g a draft Sale
of B r e a d Bill and the latter c o v e r i n g a draft S u p p l y of B r e a d a n d
F l o u r Bill, w h i c h it w a s proposed to substitute f o r t h e draft S a l e of
Bread Bill. T h e scope of t h e S u p p l y of Bread and F l o u r Bill w a s
limited to two objects :—
(1.) The b r i n g i n g of t h e provisions of the existing B r e a d A c t s
as to w e i g h t i n t o conformity w i t h m o d e r n r e q u i r e ­
ments ; and
(2.) The r e m o v a l of t h e anomalous prohibition on t h e use of
self-raising flour.
' .
It was explained that t h e Bill would make p e r m a n e n t t h e p r o ­
v i s i o n s of the existing Sale of Food Order, in accordance w i t h a
p l e d g e g i v e n by the G o v e r n m e n t . T h e effect of the Bill w o u l d b e
to b r i n g E n g l i s h law into l i n e with Scottish l a w , which since 1 8 9 2
h a d r e q u i r e d that in Scottish b u r g h s bread (with t h e exception of
r o l l s and fancy bread) should be sold by weight and that the w e i g h t
should b e stamped on the loaf.
A t t e n t i o n was d r a w n to r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s m a d e by Scottish Local
A u t h o r i t i e s , who desired t h a t either fancjr bread w e i g h i n g o v e r
1 2 oz. should be covered b y the B i l l or that a definition of " fancy
b r e a d " should be g i v e n in the Bill. T h e Scottish Local A u t h o r i t i e s
h a d also asked that a deputation should be received by the P r e s i d e n t
of t h e B o a r d of T r a d e and t h e S e c r e t a r y for Scotland.
A t t e n t i o n was called by the S o l i c i t o r - G e n e r a l to certain p r o v i ­
sions of " The London B r e a d A c t , 1 8 2 2 , " and the Bread A c t of 18: .6
w h i c h r e q u i r e d to be co-ordinated w i t h t h e provisions of the present
measure.
A s r e g a r d s Clauses -1 and 5 of t h e Bill, it was explained t h a t
these provisions were inserted to legalise the use of self-raising flour,
which, u n d e r existing legislation, w a s illegal, a l t h o u g h n o n - i n j u r i o u s
to health.
J
T h e Committee a g r e e d —
(1.) To r e q u e s t t h e d r a f t s m a n to t a k e note of t h e points raised
in r e g a r d t o existing legislation by t h e Solicitor-General.
(2.) T h a t the r e p r e s e n t a t i o n s m a d e b y the Scottish Local
A u t h o r i t i e s should be dealt with in the clause r e l a t i n g
to Scotland, on lines to be agreed between t h e President
of the B o a r d of T r a d e and the S e c r e t a r y for S c o t l a n d
after the proposed deputation had been received.
(3.) To a p p r o v e t h e i n t r o d u c t i o n into Parliament, s u b j e c t to t h e
consent of the G o v e r n m e n t W h i p s , of t h e S u p p l y of
B r e a d and Flour Bill.
Places of Worship
(Enfranchisement)
Amendment Bill.
3. T h e Committee had u n d e r consideration a note "by t h e
A c t i n g S e c r e t a r y c o v e r i n g t h e Places of W o r s h i p (Enfranchise­
m e n t ) A m e n d m e n t Bill in the form passed b y the House of Lords
on t h e second r e a d i n g . Lord K n u t s f o r d ' s e x p l a n a t o r y note, and a
l e t t e r from the A t t o r n e y - G e n e r a l on the s u b j e c t ( C P . 3 9 5 4 ) .
The Attorney-General
informed the C o m m i t t e e that " T h e
P l a c e s of W o r s h i p E n f r a n c h i s e m e n t Bill, 1 9 2 0 , " e n a b l e d trustees of
leasehold premises used as places of w o r s h i p to convert their
leaseholds into freeholds upon p a y m e n t of compensation to t h e
l a n d l o r d . The only exceptions m a d e in t h e A c t of 1 9 2 0 related to
p r e m i s e s w h i c h had been acquired by certain specified public
bodies, or by the o w n e r s , for the purposes of a r a i l w a y , dock, or
canal for navigation u n d e r an A c t of P a r l i a m e n t . T h e object of
t h e a m e n d i n g Bill w a s to extend this exception to p r e m i s e s owned
b y a C h a r i t y , provided that t h e C h a r i t y can p r o v e to t h e satisfaction
of the C h a r i t y Commissioners, or the Board of Education, that t h e
p r e m i s e s a r e needed for the extension of the w o r k of c h a r i t y .
T h e Bill had received l a r g e s u p p o r t in t h e House of Lords, a n d
it w a s understood t h a t the L a b o u r P a r t y w o u l d not oppose it, and
that t h e r e w o u l d be considerable support f o r it in the House of
Commons.
T h e Committee a g r e e d That, subject to the consent of the G o v e r n m e n t W h i p s ,
a r r a n g e m e n t s should be made for the G o v e r n m e n t to
assume responsibility for the Places of W o r s h i p ( E n f r a n ­
chisement) A m e n d m e n t Bill, in the form a p p r o v e d by the
House of Lords.
Guardianship of
Infants Bill.
4. W i t h reference to H . A . C . 1 0 5 , Minute 3, t h e Committee
w e r e informed by t h e A t t o r n e y - G e n e r a l t h a t h e h a d seen the
r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s of the p r o m o t e r s of the G u a r d i a n s h i p of Infants Bill,
and found that the p r o m o t e r s adhered to t h e m a i n principles on
w h i c h t h e Bill was based. I n these circumstances it w o u l d be v e r y
difficult to draft any m e a s u r e w h i c h w a s l i k e l y to command g e n e r a l
acceptance.
The Committee agreed—To r e q u e s t the A t t o r n e y - G e n e r a l to i n t e r v i e w t h e promoters of
t h e B i l l with a v i e w , if possible, to some a g r e e m e n t being
reached.
Celluloid and
Cinematograph
Film Bill.
5. T h e Committee had before them a jVlemorandum by t h e
Home S e c r e t a r y ( C P . 3 9 3 5 ) c o v e r i n g the draft Celluloid a n d
C i n e m a t o g r a p h Bill, the p r o v i s i o n s of w h i c h are designed to
m i n i m i s e so far as possible fire risks in the case of r a w celluloid
stores, and the premises of persons w h o l e t out c i n e m a t o g r a p h
films.
T h e Committee a g r e e d —
T h a t , s u b j e c t to t h e consent of the G o v e r n m e n t W h i p s b e i n g
obtained, t h e Home S e c r e t a r y should be authorised to
a r r a n g e for t h e introduction f o r t h w i t h of t h e Celhiloid a n d
C i n e m a t o g r a p h F i l m Bill in the House of Lords.
2, Whitehall Gardens,
May 9, 1 9 2 2 .
.S.W.
1,