Plato’s Republic
Books 1 and 2
Overview
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Conventional Views of Justice
Thrasymachus: Advantage of the
Stronger
Glaucon’s Question
Ancient Greece
Review & Recap last week
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Setting, Characters, Background
Note how the dialogue begins
Keep in mind talk on virtue -- can’t persuade
if don’t listen
Force triumphs over logic/persuasion
I.
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Conventional Views of Justice
In Book 1, the dialogue is driven by:
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–
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a.
b.
c.
d.
Cephalus -- old/respect
Polemarchus -- warrior
Thrasymachus -- rhetorician
Socrates
I.
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Conventional Views of Justice:
Cephalus
Justice is giving everyone his due (331c)
I.
Conventional Views of Justice:
Cephalus
A. Socrates’ challenge: How to know what is
owed? (331c-d)
B. Can’t take bearing of justice from the law (exit
Cephalus, and with it ancestral wisdom)
C. Note frustration of dealing with Socrates (early
enthusiasm wanes rapidly, Cephalus goes back
to sacrifice).
I.
Conventional Views of Justice:
Cephalus
Exit Cephalus…
I.
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Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
Justice means doing good for friends and
harm to enemies (332a)
I.
Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
A. How to know friends?
B. Recall social context -- the moral relation at this
time is person with the city, with the city primary
C. Socrates challenge: How do we know our real
friends from real enemies?
I.
Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
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To do so, means need to know first what’s
good for you
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Can city decide that for you?
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No -- need further standard, some objective
standard against which can judge (i.e., know
what is truly good),
I.
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Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
Justice can’t just be doing good things for
city
Socrates introduces here a relation between
justice and knowledge (i.e., we need to
know this standard) and who’s special
concern is knowledge? philosopher -- (thus
tie to defense of Socrates and of philosophy
I.
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Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
Draws an analogy between justice and
art/craft (e.g., art of medicine)
Physician applies theoretical general
knowledge to particular, practical problem
(i.e., general knowledge of biology/medicine
allows physician to cure your particular
illness)
I.
Conventional Views of Justice:
Polemarchus
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Art involves applying general knowledge
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Justice, as an art, demands that we have
some general knowledge; so it’s more than
simply helping friends and harming enemies.
Enter Thrasymachus (335b)
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Review Thrasymachus:
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Traveling teacher who charges pupils
Rhetoric: speaking persuasively (without regard
for truth of what is said).
Keep in mind the Apology (this will be the style of
argument used against Socrates in condemning
him to death).
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Justice is whatever is to the advantage of the
stronger (338c)
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Laws vary from city to city, ruling class
decides laws, laws define the just
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Common thread of all is that powerful make
the laws to their own advantage
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Note the coherence, and validity of the
definition, from political point of view
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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C. Socrates’ First Response
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What about mistakes in ruling class? (339b-c))
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Thrasymachus counters
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he claims to teach the art of ruling, so rulers in
precise sense don’t make mistakes (340d))
where “art” here means making the weaker
argument appear the stronger
ruler in precise sense is one who can invoke
justice to make people believe he’s ruling for them
and not for himself
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Thrasymachus agrees knowledge is basis of
goodness, but if so, best people are the
tyrants who manage to place themselves in
such a position as to set the rules
People who really know are the ones who
use justice as a smokescreen to secure
personal desires
Justice then, is matter of appearance
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Socrates agrees that practitioner of justice is
like an artist, but ...
Point of art is to improve thing over which art
practices/presides
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e.g., doctors can both heal and kill with their
knowledge
Thrasymachus responds with shepherd
analogy (342b))
II. Thracymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Socrates draws distinction between money
art and shepherding art
II. Thrasymachus:
Advantage of the Stronger
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Socrates is able to show that Thrasymachus
seeks justice on same terms and questions
whether this is compatible (that is, seeking
theory/philosophy of justice and earning
bucks)
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Is the knower's art and the moneymaker’s art
compatible?
Thrasymachus blushes, throws in the towel
(350d)
III. Glaucon’s Question
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Biographical Background Recap
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Thinks he’s gifted, lots of potential, potentially
“tyrannical” man
B. Question (Book II)
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Wants to know: if this is the only life he has, he
doesn’t want to waste it, so ...
Why should he be just?
III. Glaucon’s Question
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Socrates needs to show that being just is
good in and of itself.
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Needs to show good to be authentically just,
rather than just appearing to be just.